Broken Men, Healthy Marriages | Christian Marriage Advice for Men

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Pride comes before the fall, man. And early in my marriage, I think that's what I would struggle with. It was pride. Because the way my culture, I say my culture, the way the marriage is around me, there was this magismo. There was this, hey, it's my way or the highway. And even if you had struggles, you would try to just um reflect on it. Just try to make it seem like you had it together or whatever. Even if you knew you messed up, it was just kind of like this arrogant attitude, you know? And it wasn't until I got to this, obviously it's a work of the spirit, you know. I was like, man, I don't want to keep falling in my marriage. Well, then I have to let pride die.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

My life was just spyrolling downhill. Depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death by despair. The one guy who showed up is just Jesus. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose. You can break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had. Hey, welcome to the Dudes Without Dadcast. My name is Joshua Brown, and today we are doing a round table discussion on the following. It's really this idea of how do you love your wife when we can only give what we got. A lot of times we get married looking for marriage to fulfill something that we're looking for or wanting to do something that marriage allows you to do, that it's like you're not in trouble anymore. But once you get inside this thing, you're like, okay, what does it look like to genuinely stay faithful for the long haul? What does this marriage thing look like? And so today I've got some incredible guests on the pod. Uh my man uh Curtis. Some people call him Big Pond. We call him the Swedish pastor, we call him the Swedish uh pastor. When he's not preaching the gospel in Sweden, he's digging holes and bringing clean water to people in different countries. He's an absolute G, and we appreciate you being here on the call, Curtis. We've also got Antoine Robinson, he's my brother from Another Mother. He moves in rooms that people often don't even know exist and uses skills, the stories, and his proximity to influence other to help other influencers increase their reach. And then he's also working on something behind the scenes, building his own arc, and I'm not gonna let it out of the bag, but you just keep an eye on him. God's gonna use him and anoint him in a mighty way. Also, my man Cody Eskew. We call him the culture coach. Cody understands that the culture you carry shapes your business, your family, your marriage, your life, and he helps people change from the inside out. He is super sharp, and we are blessed because he chooses to give a little bit of his time to do without dads. We also have Gabriel Nevez. This man used to run the streets of LA. Gangbanging was his world, even was in prison. And now he runs a pool business and uses every job site, every customer, every conversation as a mission field. Gabriel just didn't change his life. He's now changing the lives of those who live inside of his zip code. And today we are super grateful to have a special guest, Kurt Campbell, from Men of Valor. Kurt has walked with men through some of their darkest seasons and has written what it actually looks like to love your wife. Not the idea, but the real work of it. And we're honored to have you today at the table, Kurt.

SPEAKER_05 3:45

Thank you, Josh. Good to be here, man.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah. And let me let's start with this. What is the dumbest thing that you guys have ever said to your spouse that has something to do with your marriage? And so I'm gonna start with this. I'm gonna start with it. Because when I was processing, I was like, I cannot believe I said this because my heart and my mind is so far away from what uh this idea looks like. But I actually said this to my wife in the first four or five years of our marriage, and we've been married almost 30 years now. And this is the wrong thing to say, so I'm confessing. I said, if you ever cheat on me, I'm done. I'm out of here. I look back at that now and I'm like, that is the most ungospel thing I have ever said. And I have repented to her throughout the years and said, Dear, no matter what you do, I'm gonna pursue you, I'm gonna love you, and I'm gonna do everything I can to be the best husband, man, and father that I can be. And so when you look pat when you look at your life, if you've ever said anything dumb, I'd invite you to share whatever's coming to your mind.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

My my wife, I think I told her I'd get her deported. I'm pretty sure at one point, I'm like, listen, if you want this green card, you will uh she's from Sweden. But yeah, that's probably the first thing that comes to my mind. Just maybe I was joking, but maybe I was serious.

SPEAKER_06 5:26

Yep. A little leverage.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, just that's I mean, that's it. Sometimes you need a little leverage. She's also like four inches taller than me, so there's not much I can do. Words were my only line of attack.

SPEAKER_06 5:39

I have a similar thing that I say in joking about my wife. If we ever we don't argue that much about anything serious anymore. Um, the serious things we are on the same side of the table handling usually, but the the little stuff that kind of gets you in little arguments is funny now. But you know, my phrase to her, we have five kids. And my phrase to her when she gets a little upset, things I'm like, what are you gonna do? Leave me? You know, like with five kids, like, oh my gosh. It's it's a joke. And and if you know my wife, it's like that you know, nothing's sacred to her. We joke about so many things where we're just like, oh gosh. If people heard the way we talk to each other, but yeah, that's kind of along the same lines. I got a lot of leverage.

SPEAKER_05 6:31

Yeah, mine's uh thankfully from really early. I had to think about that, Joshua, when you asked the question, but early in marriage, I mean it was it was within our first year, probably, and and we had she had a six-year-old son when I met her, so we had a blended family uh right off the rip. And uh I remember laying in bed, I don't even remember what we were talking about or arguing about, but I just said, well, maybe we shouldn't have gotten married. And God, I mean, when I think it like it's crazy to even think that came out of my mouth. And honestly, just because of who she is, I'm not sure she would even remember that or remember what it was about, but it has haunted me because I knew God brought us together. But anyway, that was a crazy one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Um, I think I'll go, man. I think um I say stupid things all the time, man. I can't, I wish I can tell you guys one, but I think honestly, if I look back at my earlier years in marriage, I don't think it was something I necessarily said, but it was what I would do. You know, it was more my actions or speak louder than words. You guys have heard that, and I was just very um insecure of myself, and I had so many walls built up in my marriage that it was um, I think I think words would have been the least of it. It was more what I was doing, how I was handling and approaching certain situations, you know, and it was just that work in progress that the the Lord just started changing me and molding me, you know, as I surrounded myself with men. But if I look back and it was just I was very immature, very extremely immature, the way I would handle things and my preconceptions of certain things.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Yeah, for me, I have to be a little careful because I'm at a coffee shop and there's a women's group. So uh I'm I'm gonna try to be cautious to hit another conversation. Uh but I think one of the crazy things I ever said to my life while trying to follow vision is woman, if you don't get aboard the vision, I can replace you with somebody else. I don't find you, you know, trying to be all about vision and mission and all this and get the wife on board. Like I'm a lineup. My wife is gonna take your time. She's an Enneagram 9. She's she's not moving for anybody. And uh that taught me a lot of about grace and uh foolery at the same time. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, the scripture, you know, so if you're a dude and you're getting this or you're listening, and you know, I've promoted this on all of our social media for folks to to listen to the live, and we're gonna be reposting this. But the Bible says that out of the heart the mouth speaks, and there needs to be a full confession from all the dudes. We all think dumb things sometimes, where we make ourselves the main thing, and then when we don't have our spouses bowing down and worshiping us, we often say stupid things. And so what's important for us this conversation is to start asking this question. And I'd love for our our guest or anybody that wants to process this why do you think you said or did some of the dumb things you've said or you know, so everyone here just shared something they said or did. What was at the root of why you were saying or doing those things over the early years of your marriage or even all the time now?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

I think like Eugene Peterson, when he was writing about the Psalms, he said, We need the Psalms because you need to be able to cuss without cussing. I was like, that's so good. Because like, what is a cuss word? A cuss word, it's like I've kind of I've come to the point where I'm at the end of the tool belt I have and the vernacular to accurately describe this emotion or this feeling or this, because whether it's with my wife or it's with my kids, I'm fine until I run out of tools. Like I can maintain the conversation and I can, but the moment where I'm like backed into a corner, I don't know how to get out of this, and I selfishly want to get my own way and manipulate my way to get what I want, it's like now I'm just grabbing a hold of something. And so it's like that's that's the root of that cuss word. That's the root of that stupid thing we say to our wife or to our kids. It's like we run out of those those tools, and ultimately for me, it's like I'm trying to get my own way. Like I need it my way, and so I don't have anything else left. And so I'd say something stupid.

SPEAKER_06 11:27

Yeah, I think the actions thing is very similar to that too. I think I'm at the end of how I know how to act. I'm I I feel very much like I'm trying to go back in my mind and actually remember a real stupid thing. The thing I said was kind of a joke, but a real stupid thing I've said, and I'm like, I don't really remember like a big impactful thing, but I'm like, dude, I can name 50, 60, 70. How long do we have to name the things I've done that she stayed with me through or worked with me through? And um, I think that's kind of the same way. I'm at the end of how I know how to get along in life, and I just have these compulsive reactions where I just don't know how to act, and it's you know, I'm wide left, you know.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

Yeah, man. First word came to mind for me was flesh. I want what I want when I want it. Uh this side of glory that's never going away. It just is the curse of our flesh. That it it's insatiable. And uh so when I'm living in the flesh and not the spirit, I am capable of anything. And uh I hate it, but it just is a it's a constant reminder. I mean, I know I know what I'm in by flesh. Uh it's it's evident, and so I gotta, I gotta get I gotta get the ship right, you know, before I engage in conversation or even looks, you know, a roll of the eye or a whatever. It's like so yeah, for me it's just the insatiable flesh of me wanting me.

SPEAKER_06 13:10

Yeah, it's in it's it's evident to you, so you have the power to kind of cut it off whenever you see it, right? Yeah. If it's not evident to you, then it controls your life. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

But you're right, it is controllable. I mean, that's a one of the fruit of the spirit, thankfully, is the self-control. We don't have to say it and don't have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Let me just push back for a second. There's a lot of guys that look at this and they're angry at their wife, or they're they really are upset at her, and they they're they won't believe that it's their flesh. They don't really think it's about them. They think it's about her not meeting their needs, or they did X, Y, and Z. Are y'all confident that the problem most dudes struggle with are actually they're actually themselves versus the woman that they're super angry at or frustrated with?

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yes. The answer is yes. Why is that? I mean, like, uh spending time with uh with the coaching and all these business owners, and then spending time with all these church planners, it's like you cannot control the weather, you cannot control the way other people are. But man, we don't we don't track things back to the root of where they're actually coming from. We're looking at all these symptoms that we see, and it's like this is if I'm the enemy, the thing that I'm getting the church to do is focus on all the symptoms. I'm making sure they don't pay attention to what's actually essential. It's like Mary sitting at Jesus' feet and Martha in the kitchen is like, no, only one thing is needful. You're you're worried and concerned, you're all these things, you're distracted by all these things, and it's like that's the I'm I'm where I'm trying to figure all this out, and I'm trying to, my my wife does this, and this person does this, and this person does this. It's like you are completely missing the whole thing that Jesus is offering you, which is a life built on the rock, which is becoming a good tree, which is somebody that no matter the circumstances or no matter what somebody else does, I'm I'm steady, I'm unshakable. Like this is just who I am. I had this moment with my little brother. We were, we would go and he wasn't wanting to work out at the time, so I would make him go do cold plunges with me, and he got in the habit where he liked it. So we'd do a cold plunge and we'd read Romans. Do a cold plunge, read Romans. And we we went and did a cold plunge one time. We were sitting there reading Romans, and he was like, I noticed something. Faith or righteousness is different now than it was in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, righteousness was what you do. Now it's saying it's it's it's faith. It's like having what Abraham has. And we're starting to talk about faith and coming to faith. And he said, he's like, Yeah, but I don't know if I want to do that yet. He's like, I like I like smoking. I like hanging out with these girls, I like doing all this. And if I do this, I'm gonna have to stop that. And I don't want to stop that. And I I asked the question, I said, What happens when you jump in the cold water? And the first thing he said, he was like, My balls disappear. I'm like, all right, what happens after that? And he's like, Oh, well, my my limbs, they they start to go numb. Why? Well, because my blood is flowing from my my arms and my legs, my extremities to my core. Why? He said, because you can live without your arm, you can't live without your heart. Like, that's it. And it's like if we actually get to the root and the heart of every single one of these things, it's never those outside circumstances. Every single time you have like we're training, not trying. Like you have the ability in all these moments in the difficulty of marriage and the difficulty of parenting to become the good tree. And when you're blaming everybody else, you forfeit every opportunity that you have to have that fullness of life that Jesus is promising.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

That's a great word, Curtis.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Thanks, Kurt.

SPEAKER_05 16:59

I would have my response was gonna be heck yeah, it's her. Yeah. If she would just do it, she'd supposed to do it. I'm all good. I like that.

SPEAKER_06 17:08

Did you mention the fruit of the spirit? The love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithful, generous, self-control.

unknown 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:16

It's not other control, right? That's a tough one. Uh one of the things we were just talking about, men of valor, and we're talking about Jake Stanzel. One of the things that his company that they do a lot is this concept of 100% responsibility. It's like you might not have caused the problem. In most of your cases, you're not, you had nothing to do with your dad not being around or being the guy that he was, but you have a hundred percent of the responsibility. You have the ability to respond to that. Yeah, you didn't do what you did to you. Nothing you can do about it, but you have the ability to go from this point forward, I'm gonna handle it with the best possible way that I can. And you you've got to surround yourself with people who can reiterate that in your life, in my opinion. I mean, I you're not gonna become the best version of yourself by yourself.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Man, I was gonna, Cody, that's great. I was gonna say, uh, hopefully, all of us, everybody, has at least one, if not more, people in their lives who are what Curtis just talked about. Like, regardless of the storms, they are just they're steady. And you think about how calming that is, reassuring that is, how it builds your own faith that man, if this guy isn't shaken in these circumstances, that's amazing. And so, boy, if we can bring that to our own relationships, I think it, you know, it it starts at that foundation with with Christ and believing that you know, the promise we all quote that in everything God works together for good through those who love love and call according to his purpose. So it's like, you know what, God is sovereign, he's trustworthy. So even in the midst of this, whatever it is, uh in my marriage, I can I can trust him, and because I can trust him, I can be that steady anchor even in the storm.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Kurt, you kind of serve in a strategic position for this conversation. You you know, for those that don't know what men of valor is, would you mind sharing a little bit about men of valor? And then I want you to link it to this thing unchecked can lead to behaviors of you doing some things that you never thought you would do in your entire life that can land you in places that you never thought would happen. And so would you mind sharing, folks, a little bit about what men of valor is and then speak to this hey, if you leave this anger, this frustration unchecked, it can actually move to you doing some things that you'd never thought you'd yeah, yeah, for sure, man.

SPEAKER_05 19:55

So men of valor uh in a nutshell is a prison ministry, and so we work with guys who are incarcerated in prisons and jails across Tennessee, and it's evangelistic, it's discipleship, it's a lot of counseling. And then we have a couple of re-entry centers where guys can transition when they get get out of incarceration, uh, one in Nashville and one in Knoxville, and they are just kind of A-Z discipleship re-entry. Everything a guy needs to get his life back on track after incarceration. Um man, I can't tell you how many guys through the years I have spent time with in prison who literally it was a five-minute encounter or decision where they reacted in a way that felt righteous to them at the time uh in their anger, and they have been sitting in a prison cell for decades. I mean, I'm and I'm that's not an exaggeration because of a five-minute decision. Um I think what's been really interesting to me in the last few years has been just kind of this growing awareness of y'all, I don't know if you've ever talked about on your show the adverse childhood experiences, the ACES study. It'd probably be good for something for y'all to chop up sometime because it's it's amazing, man. If there's 10 indicators, uh I can't list them off the top of my head, but it's basically if you experienced any of these 10 in your childhood, and there are things like a divorced home, um, drugs or alcohol in the home, physical, sexual, mental abuse, uh, you know, and there's 10 of them. If you experienced any of those, your likelihood for uh negative impact in your life, I mean, it is it's crazy. Even mental health, the way your physical body and your mental health uh responds to those kind of experiences is crippling. And so So if we're not dealing with those things on the front end, whether it's in professional counseling or in discipleship with godly men who were where we are being immersed in the truth of God about who we are and not living out of just the lies of our experience, then man, we are we're sitting ducks for catastrophe. So it's something every man has to take inventory of in his life and then take action to address the issues that were in most cases not his fault. They weren't caused by him. It just was his environment that he grew up in. But boy, it affects our lives.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story. And if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you, I want you to stop and hit subscribe. I am on mission to help men become the dads they never had. Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions, identity issues. And really what we need is we need a model. We need to see people that have broken the patterns and come alongside of them. I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey. Every Thursday, we're gonna release a new episode. Each episode is gonna help you and others become the dads they never had. Hit subscribe, share with a friend. Now let's get back to the story. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that because uh most folks are on this side of the prison walls, but it wouldn't take much for you to act on some of the anger that you have where you do something dumb, and the next thing you know you've you've actually you've you've destroyed and you've set up behaviors for your kids that you wouldn't ever want them to be a part of. So that ACE um test part of it is a father wound, you know, and father wound doesn't mean just absent father, but you can have a destructive or distracted father, someone that's not intentional. And this is one I really want to get into because I actually believe that there's a root to a lot of the anger that men experience and they contribute it to their spouse. So I want all of our you know, do's without dads, our roundtable guys. When did you realize or have you realized that the f or yeah, I'll say when, when did you realize that the problem wasn't your spouse, it was actually you were the problem. When in your marriage did you realize this?

SPEAKER_05 24:31

Again this morning for me. I mean that sounds crazy, but I'm that's a that's an ongoing thing for me, Joshua. I always want to point the finger. It's the wife you gave me, right? So I I have not come to that full realization yet. I know it in my heart, but again, when I'm walking in the spirit, it's a no-brainer, but it's a it's a daily battle.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

I would I would definitely uh side with that. Uh but I I personally believe when I tell any man this and men that I mentor that if anything goes wrong in a relationship, especially a marriage, it's always the man's fault, no matter what. Uh taking true responsibility and leadership uh over um not only just the house, but emotions and feelings, and it's just like you're the president of your house. If anything's gone wrong in your house, I don't care what happened, if she stepped out on you, if she cussed you out, you didn't take inventory somewhere. And um another thing that really rises up with what Curtis said, it's it's a root thing. I didn't know that I was actually lashing out or being angry or frustrated at my life. Not because of what my wife was doing, but because of some of the things she, you know, maybe did or not even intentionally, but it was the shadow side of my mother. When they say you marry your mom, that's a real thing. So it was the abandonment or the rejection, or maybe not enough love. I'm like, why the my wife is the most loving person I've ever met in my entire life. Like, why am I getting angry at this? Why can't I control this? And uh it was the unforgiveness of my mother and things that she didn't even know that was limited in her capacity. Uh things I need to I had to go back and forgive her so I can set my wife free from this side. I didn't know I was fighting with the shadow of the negative side or the uh um uh ignorant side of my mother, you know, growing up and things. I just didn't see that.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

So, how did you find that out, Antoine? What can't what brought you to the place of realizing that in that moment?

SPEAKER_03 26:50

Yeah, it was it was well, taking inventory of all these conversations, I felt like I was keep having, I kept coming back to you. I'm like, this is a pattern. Like, why am I always angry at this thing? Why am I why do I get fired up when she does this or doesn't do this? Uh and then I I can't remember who. Um it, I think it might have been, I don't know if you guys know a guy named Tim Ross. Uh, he used to be at Gateway for a long time. Um but I went to his book launch and he talked about we all have a little boy hidden in a basement in our hearts. And we need someone else to go with us down to the basement to get that little boy who was hurt, who was abused, who um dealing with all this pent-up anger. And we all need somebody to go down to the basement with a flashlight and help go find this little boy who's in a who's in a ball in the corner somewhere. And when he said that, um there's probably some other uh some quotes and moments like that, that it's kind of it. I'm like, what am I what am I dealing with that I've never dealt with in therapy or have to talk to a man about growing up without a father? It's a your father's supposed to help you uh locate, relocate, compartmentalize ideas and feelings. But hey, what are you dealing with? Hey, how are you feeling about that? I'm dealing with my son all the time. Like, how does it make you feel? I don't know, you know, or I've heard about it. And so not having access to that leadership to help find out where to put those feelings and thoughts. Uh I man, fatherhood plays so much into how to treat a woman, how to get married. Like, because that's where I learned all of that through mentorship. And not knowing that that shadowed side of anger that I had towards my mother was carrying over, it was compounding over to my marriage. Um, it and it didn't hurt. Then I feel guilty and shameful and all those things too, as well. So yeah, just just learn how to love her through that, but also forgive myself while doing that too as well. Uh so yeah, that's that's where I where I learned how to identify that at is why am I always angry at the most caring, loving woman? Why am I like this? Two, I need to go get this little boy who was hurt a long time ago who didn't know what to do in his feeling.

SPEAKER_05 29:15

I'm I'm I'm just a bigger boy. Josh, I may have taken your question a different direction, but I'd I'd love to hear these other guys answer. Like if they have reached a point in their marriage where they're just they just always realize and acknowledge that they're the issue, it's not their wife.

SPEAKER_06 29:34

What if she is the issue? I mean, that's a I kind of I know the ultimate answer to this, but I mean that's why if your wife has cheated on you out of her own compulsive problems dealing with her father wounds or her mother wounds, and she doesn't know why she's doing what she's doing, you're not necessarily the problem. So what if what if what if she is the problem?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Yeah, I have I have some friends that uh have been going through some various things where it's uh it'll be challenges similar to that. And what's been amazing is watching a few of them begin to take on that that first Corinthians script. We have the mind of Christ. Like I have the choice to can Jesus said, repent for the kingdom of heaven has come near. Repent, change your mind. I now have full access to change this thing, and wire the patterns in a way where I have the mind of Christ. Like that is a true statement that if I believe, I will act toward and I have full capability and access to. And so watching these men in those situations, what you're talking about, Cody, and saying, I'm choosing joy. I'm choosing it, I'm just choosing it. And there are moments where I lose it, and there are moments, but you're training, not trying. Like if I'm if I'm trying to figure out how to bench press 300 pounds and I haven't bench pressed in quite a while, I'm not, I can try all I want. It's not gonna work. But if I'm training, I'm I'm expecting to get sore. I'm expecting injuries to potentially come. I'm expecting all these things, but it's like I'm I'm building into this process of becoming somebody. And so it's like that's that's the the reality of it, is a lot of times, not maybe not a lot of times, but many times, it's like, yeah, you have a partner or a kid or a friend or name that person, that is it is their problem. But you take that on. You take Jim Rohn used to say you can help a you can you can help a thousand, you can't carry three on your back. And it's like we try to control the outcomes of how this person's gonna respond and try to pull the puppet strings, and inevitably we're playing God rather than getting to our knees, trusting God for the outcomes and learning how to respond in any situation. I just finished Bonhoeffer's uh biography by Eric Methax's for the second time. And that was the way they described him in prison. They described him this way. He was just like that they said he was the most joyful person. There were people that were just riddled with anxiety and depression, and they said he was just a light bulb in this place. He turned the lights on. And it's like he had he had just gotten engaged, he's like, he has everything that's kind of moving for him, and now he's sitting in this prison, being told what to do, not get like it's he's in a German prison camp, and the dude's happy. It's like, all right, well, if he can do that, you can be happy when you're getting nagged at. You know, like you can figure it out. You have the capability, but if you don't, if you don't believe what Jesus said, you're not gonna act toward that, and you're never gonna find what he has for you on the other side of that that pain and that hurt. Suffering produces character, character produces hope, or perseverance, perseverance, character, character, hope. It's like in the end, we get this joy and this hope from the suffering. So yeah, maybe you're in it, but you now have a massive opportunity, and I'm watching friends of mine walk through it right now.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

I think it goes back to uh I think it goes back to that the the wife you gave me. Um, that's responsibility. When when the first moment when I think of a woman cheating, I think of the garden. Like she listened to a different building, a different spirit that led her to straight. That's a form of like, what are you doing? Talking to another man kind of thing. And the first thing Adam didn't do was take responsibility of the word that guy came. He didn't take responsibility for that. Even though we can say she messed it up, she listened, like, wait a second, bro. Like and when it when it what the reason why I say like anything that happens in your house, in your marriage, in your relationship, no matter what happens, your kid, you know, and that's why men, we we kind of naturally feel even overall parents, we feel bad if our kids go astray, uh, or something like man, we've done all we could do. Even in a business, I think if something goes wrong with the business, they don't look at the employee. We talk to the CEO, the CEO's gonna fire. If the basketball team loses over and over and over again, who are they firing? They're not firing the players, they're firing the coach. So being ahead of those things, not that we can control all those things, what what Curtis was saying, but taking inventory, being responsible for those things, and and learning how to control what we can without fully having to throw that outcome, I I think gives us more grace to understand that well, we didn't create these humanities. Like we participated, but we're not the manufacturer. Like, I don't have that manual all the time. You know, and anything that gets perfected, anything that needs to be repurposed, that's where we uh it's our jobs to hey God, let me package this, give it back to you. Because you have you're the only one who has a warranty for this thing. Like, I don't know how this works. Yeah, I chose her, like I married her, I put the rank on her in any condition that she came in. It's pretty much like unseen, as is, you know. And that's something I learned growing up, and the more I learned that with my kids and my life and what our business is. Uh, yeah, I'm the ultimate uh trustee and personal responsible for that. But I'm I'm I'm led through that by the blessing God and by just loving my wife better and differently. Uh, through her nest. We know how crazy our wives can get, and they get all the emotions, they get all the stuff. My wife lives with kids all day. I can't even imagine why she would probably want to go and break glass. You know, but it's my job to give her that hug, give her that kiss, post she's loved, store she's loved, and uh keep violing that though. My bad gable.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Nah, you're good. Hey, I was just thinking, man, um, pride comes before the fall, you know? And personally, just the way I grew up in my marriage, it was just young as an immature husband. I had no examples, man. There was no godly example of what a good marriage is supposed to be like, right? Not at home, not with my uncles, not with my friends. Nobody was married. So here we are, two young believers married, trying to figure this thing out, man. You know, it it pride comes before the fire. I was thinking how how you said it, uh, Curtis. You know, um, the other day, my son, they're into benching, right? They're taking care of their bodies, uh, 18-year-old and 19-year-old. They're at their prime. And I remember we have a we have a bench press in the back, man, and it was there was a couple plates on there, and my son was just like, he was just puffing his chest, like, dad, look, look, I can hit two plates, man, like nothing. And and I'm like, that's light work, you know. I can I can hit that. I haven't lifted like 30 seconds forever, right? And there I go, my wife, I tell my wife to spot me. Like, just spot me just in case. Oh no, dude, I go, bam, right? That thing comes down and just collapses on my chest, and my wife is there just screaming like, hey, what's going on? So I just wiggle them out, whatever, we get out of that, right? And we're able to laugh about it, right? But I was just thinking how pride comes before the fall, man. And early in my marriage, I think that's what I would struggle with. It was pride. Because the way my culture, I'll say my culture, the way the marriage is around me, there was this machismo. This there was this, hey, it's my way or the highway. And even if you had struggles, you would try to just um flex on it. Just try to make it seem like you had it together or whatever. Even if you knew you messed up, it was just kind of like this arrogant attitude, you know. And it wasn't until I I got to this, obviously, it's a work of the spirit, you know, I was like, man, I don't want to keep falling in my marriage. Well, then I have to let pride die. I have to humble myself in my marriage and just deal with certain areas, you know. And, you know, guys, um, I think um our brother Kurt, you would you you would know about this, you know. Um, I grew up, I should be doing life right now, a life, a life sentence in my life right now. I I shot somebody. I shouldn't even be gifted with the with the with the gift of marriage, okay? But God in his grace, man, he brought me to my wife. And when I think about that, like the gift of God. Like He He God gifted me this woman. He brought my partner into my life, you know. Who am I to mistreat the gift that God brought me? But it's a work of the spirit, right? Because we have the all these things that go on. But I'm I'm supposed to, my marriage was not supposed to last a couple years, okay? I was on high control parole, I couldn't get a job, man. Um, I had no examples of what a marriage was. I had I had that little boy, like Antoine said, that had some major issues in that basement, you know, that I had nobody that was willing to go down there to that basement with me. So I thought until I started opening up and realizing, hey man, I need help. And I started surrounding myself with these men, and they started just discipling me, man. I started what pride. I had to get rid of pride, I had to humble myself, and these men just began to iron sharpen iron, began to just build me up, disciple me, and then I began to have vision for my marriage, vision for my life. I was like, you know what? I don't want to be like my uncle Paco, man, with three, four, five marriages. I want to be like brother Kurt over here that I have nothing, nothing in common with, but they have a godly marriage.

unknown 40:40

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

I want to be like that, you know. So that's me and my wife. I began to work towards that, began to ask questions. So think about that, man. Like, it's just pride. At the end of the day, there's so much pride. When we start having these issues, we have to let pride die. You know, it's hard. It's not a work. We we as men, I think that's our default, right? We hey no, we it's our pride. But man, if we want our marriages to flourish, I think we gotta let pride die. And admit that you can't bench press no more.

SPEAKER_06 41:16

Yeah, that's the that's the perfect analogy for what I'm kind of teasing out the answer for that question. What if she's the problem? It's like she didn't coax you into getting on that bench. Exactly. You know, like she didn't she didn't say, Yeah, you got it, big daddy, you know, get out there and get it. You know, she was probably in her mind thinking, what an idiot.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Cody, but she touches these guns all the time. She's no one but once couldn't pick that up.

SPEAKER_06 41:42

Yeah, but she you get in that you get in this situation, right? Your pride gets you down here. Who's whose problem is it? It was it was kind of your problem. You were the problem. Who solved the problem? Both of you. You needed her help at some point, or you go, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I I ended up the same way. I mean, in my marriage, I can legitimately go back to one season in my marriage where I go, I'm the problem. I'm 100% the problem here. And she's like, even still, we are the solution. That shift in my mind with our marriage changed everything for multiple reasons. One, because it was like the human face of Jesus was right here in my face, and he was saying, We're we're gonna solve this problem. This ain't gonna be pretty, but you and I are in this together. It was it was my wife displaying Christ in me and going, You got yourself into this, and we're gonna get out of it. And then we started to renew our minds together and grow together, and it's we were 17 years into it. A lot of bad, a lot of bad, a lot of tough things in those years.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Do you have an incredible story of overcoming the home that you were raised in? Or maybe the father wounds that were placed inside your life? If so, I want to share it with other dudes without dads. Simply go to dudeswithout dadspodcast.com and apply to be a guest on the show. The reason it's important to share your story is because when you share what God has done for you, it helps other men believe that God can do it for them and he can. To share your story, head over to Dudes Without Dads Podcast today. Hey, I appreciate you guys sharing. I want to share with I want to wrap this question up with if you want to you know finish your marriage uh off, meaning not have a long marriage, you would basically do the following. If I was the devil and I was entering into your marriage, this is what I want to do. I'd want to isolate you, I'd want to remove you from Any type of community that would coach you to do anything differently than what you are programmed to do or your fallen human condition. If you want and then I'd also take your vision away. If you have vision to finish this life, a godly man, husband, and father, and then you surround yourself with a community of people that believe the same, no matter what you're going through, you can wrap them around you and say, Hey, I'm chewing on this, I'm thinking about this. Help me understand what I'm I'm I'm doing here. Why am I behaving this way? You are going to succeed. And I, you know, we help people launch uh pressure washing businesses. And the very first thing we do is we say, start with your why. Write it down. There are going to be days you want to quit. There are going to be days that the equipment doesn't work, the customers don't pay, you get flicked off, ran over. You've got to start with your why. Well, when you get married, your why is supposed to be to finish this thing, to finish this thing. And then you've got to surround yourself with a community of people that have a different fruneo than you, a different mind. And they help you, as iron sharpens iron, finish the race marked out before you. So now let's get practical. How many of you guys are familiar with as Christ loved the church, you know, so you ought to love your wife, or as Christ loved the church, laid down his life for you. That works good on Sunday morning. It looks good on, you know, a Bible verse or a t-shirt. But when Tuesday hits, can y'all help me understand practically what it legitimately looks like to love your wife?

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Can I something as you're talking that came to mind? This is the most poisonous practical thing that I see men do over and like Antoine talked about looking for patterns, right? I and I think in that he was looking for patterns in when he was having those outbursts in his marriage. But those patterns exist everywhere. They exist in history, they they exist all over the place. And so one of the patterns, like one of the patterns that I've found as I've read these old old books written by dead people, is one of the things is these guys would always have. There's this one word that's a common theme. Like uh Martin Wells Knapp wrote a book called Revival Kindlings, and it talked about all these revivals that have happened throughout history. It was written like 1890. And he said, every single one of these things had this pattern. It was this until. Until. That was the word. I'm going to pray until. Until what? I'm going to pray not until I see God do it, but until I actually believe God's gonna do it. Like I'm gonna go until. And so here's one of the most poisonous things I see that men say over and over again inside of their marriages. These three words. I tried that already. Well, that's four words. I tried that. I already tried that. I already tried that. Dude, this is the most common thing. Like, hey, start getting your wife flowers. She loves flowers. Yeah, I already tried that. I did it for a week. She didn't change. Like, all right, well, okay, you need to start asking questions, being interested in what she's interested in. Like, start to get to know her on a level that I already tried that. I I dude, that is, it's just common. I tried that, I tried that, I tried that. And it's like, no, you didn't. You you practiced it for a short period of time, expecting to get a response that you wanted, and you didn't get the response that you wanted, so you quit. Because if you're actually trying, you realize it's not about the flowers. It's about finding out what makes her tick, what makes her feel cherished. So maybe it's not the flowers, but if you keep doing it with the flowers, eventually that's gonna be a stepping stone and shed light on the next thing you need to do. Like, go until we're so weak with that. I tried that, I tried that. And so, look, with whatever these dudes are about to say, whatever advice, if you're listening to this, whatever advice you're about to get, the first thing that's gonna come to your head is I tried that. Flick that dude off your tier shoulder, tell him to shut up. You haven't, there's understand the principles behind these practices. So I would uh I would love to add to that.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

I'm also writing a book on uh my wife. We have a married to marriage podcast, and uh the book I'll I'll let you guys know here, it's called How to Date the Boss's Daughter. How to Date the Boss's Daughter. And it's when when you come in contact with the perfect woman, but it's like being on the job, being on the mission for God, and you see his daughter for the first time. Uh what type of position would you take to make her happy, but not to make him upset? Because you're you're getting married into the family business. And so uh there's some principles I've learned just in my life. And what I would say to men out here is in the Bible, along with uh men love your wives as Christ love the church, there's also this other component uh to that. What I think about um in the passage where it says, women, you ought to respect your husbands or honor them, man, you ought to love your wives. When it comes to being a man, love is the hardest thing for us to accept and for us to get out. It's the hardest thing for us because we gotta deal with emotions, we gotta deal with feelings. When I when I reread that scripture with grace and compassion, I soon realized that we have an abundance of love to give. So God in charge gave us the instructions to love our wives. He must have given us the capacity to love this much. And I say it because it's true, because I got three kids, we all have kids and our wives, and there's moments where I'm in the bed with all four of them, and they're all nestled in other men. When I think of, how did I deserve this? And it's so easy to love them. And you'll learn through these other men on here that loving a wife is so easy. We just make it so hard. I can take my wife to McDonald's and I can't show if I took her to McDonald's or Ruth Chris, or she's gonna, you know, it's super simple. Taking our time to care, be with her, love her, cherish her. Imagine of Jesus being at the well. He just spent time with that place. He was, he, he came to a place where she dwelled. So I learned, you know, my little wife loves data. So even though my man loves a day night, uh, I know that that's my wife's favorite place for me to meet her. No matter what it looks like. It could be a bed, it can be a restaurant. But learning how to vote the Boston's daughter, not quite on the other people, but is is a step in the right direction because it comes with a level of uh sensitivity and weight to that, when you understand that that's God's daughter, you're dating. Never forget who you're dating and who she belongs to. When I when I learn how to step back even faster, Curtis, and I before I say a word to my wife, I remember who her daddy is. Oh, see, wait a second. Before I say something, let me not because I don't want her to go to her father because her prayers work. I'm gonna tell you right now, my wife's prayers work.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

It was like that that proverb, acknowledge me in all your ways, and I'll make your pass straight. But I he will make your pass straight. But that that word got me because acknowledge seemed weak. It seemed passive, but it's like that's the point. Just acknowledge. If you actually acknowledge that he's in the room, there's certain things you're not gonna do, there's certain things you're not gonna say. There's he's like, all you have to do, if you fear me and you just acknowledge the fact that I am in you and with you and around you, it changes the way you see everything. Because if he's sitting in the room right now, there's certain things I'm not saying, there's certain decisions I'm not making. Acknowledge me in all your ways, and he will make your path straight.

SPEAKER_05 52:13

Well, my mind goes to uh what just your question, Joshua, about as Christ loved the church. Uh I should do this more often, but I've I've done it through the years, and and that's just listing out how Christ loves me. And you know, God is so intentional about everything he does, and that uh metaphor scripturally is that Jesus is the groom and I'm the bride. So listing out how does he love me, right? We could do that as a group. I mean, man, he is he is patient, he is forgiving, he is kind, he is I mean, on and on and on. And so practically, how do I love my wife? Well, those are the things I do. And part of what helps me in that is when I look at myself as a bride, like what kind of a wife am I to Jesus on a daily basis? And I'll be honest with you, I I suck. I mean, I I really do as a I mean, I have my moments, but it it ain't pretty, right? And so, but he loves me that way in spite of who I am as his bride. It's it's crazy and amazing. And so, man, if I can do that on any level for my wife, whether she deserves it or not, it's who God has called me to be as a reflection of him. Um, you know, and in a perfect world, which that's what we're all striving for, we've got a wife who approaches loving us in the same way that we're trying to love her. And boy, when when we're doing that together in a home, it's we're back in Eden, you know, uh to a degree. And and we'll see glimpses of that from time to time, but it's it's not not all the time for sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Let me just say something real quick, and then other guys that want to share. Our dad expert just said he sucks as a husband. That should be an indicator on how we ought to think in order to be a decent husband. If your mind is saying she sucks and not saying you suck, it might recognize you're the problem. When you end up saying I suck, it means I've got to have some grace and forgiveness in my life, and your spouse desperately needs grace and forgiveness inside of their own lives. The more time that we spend with Jesus, the more we recognize we're the ones that are in the greatest amount of need. We're the problems, we're the ones that are hungry and longing to be filled by our creator of the universe. In reality, the more that you recognize that you got issues, the more you recognize you need a savior that isn't your spouse. And that gives you the capacity and the ability to actually love your wife as Christ has loved the church when you recognize you're the problem, not her. So thank you for sharing that. But you're the dad expert, and so I think I think we all have to recognize it's us.

SPEAKER_05 55:30

Yeah, I'm not a good bride, man. But I want to be a great husband. I see it.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

I think um it's true. I love what you said, Josh. Um, it's so easy to do when you go to church. Hey, man, love Christ. I love your bride as Christ loved the church, you know, and it's just so shared loosely, right? But I think it's obviously we all agree, man. It's a it's a work of the spirit, you know. How can how can I do this without God's spirit and and God's leading in this? But I also think, man, that it takes empathy. It takes empathy to do that. We that right, the ability of to understand, share, and feel the emotions and perspectives of another person. So I think that's what's a lot of the times that's what's lacking in marriages, man. You're not really, how is this making my wife feel? Right? Like, oh, how would I feel if like putting yourself in their shoes, right? You know, and I I think that's for me that that's really helped me in my marriage, you know, when I'm like, yeah, that I I I gotta I gotta feel what she's feel, what she's feeling right now, you know. Um, so I I do want to encourage whoever's listening, man, just put yourself in her shoes every now and then. And you're gonna see how that perspective's gonna change, you know. Um, how do you love, how do you love your wife? How do you how does that look practically on a Tuesday? It's funny, uh Tuesday night, right? When the dishes are piled up this high because you got three kids and and you're both working, and for some reason, all my kids and myself, we think that the kitchen is my wife's, like um, that's her domain, so to speak. That's her woman cave, you know? So we don't go in there, we don't, we that she's gotta handle that, you know. But she's exhausted, she's tired, she's had a rough day. So, man, light bulb, here we go. How about how about I wash these dishes, man? You'll be amazed what a clean kitchen can do to your wife, bro. Like if you take care of business, little things like that, you know, because sometimes I tried that already.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

Until Curtis, until. Until keep doing it, bro.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

Do it for like just the word empathy came to mind. Like, hey, we we gotta start having empathy for one another.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

You know, but we have to ask it to there's I have this conversation with men a lot too, and they're like, yeah, but I'm just not like that. They're claiming their identity and making it so it's never gonna be true. They're like, I'm not like that, I don't have empathy. Look, you you have the ability to reflect the character of God. God has ultimate empathy. If you ask better questions, you get better answers. You ask stupid questions, you get stupid answers. Start asking these questions in prayer and believing that he actually has the answer. Stop saying, I'm not empathetic, I'm not like that. Stop saying I already tried that. Start asking better questions, you will start to find better answers. But when you ask those questions, like it's it's the time spent, it's not I'm in uh uh uh goodness. What's uh C.S. Lewis? I'm reading it again right now. In Screwtate Letters. I just read it last week. He uh ScrewTate was writing to his nephew and he said, make sure the that the man believes that the posture that he takes when he prays is of no consequence and means nothing. Like, meaning he can just be walking, running around. Make sure he doesn't know that actually being on his knees means anything. Make sure he believes it doesn't matter. And it's like, stop only, yes, carry God with you in every moment of every day. But it's like you have no idea. Most of us, most of the people in the church have no idea. Just the time spent on your knees, in that place of vulnerability, open hands in prayer, asking those questions. These are the things he loves to give us. This is what he wants to give us, but we'll ask the question while we're driving to work, not think about it again, and then we blame God. Like, I already asked him, I already tried that. It's like, no, spend the time, pray until, because he can make us men that have empathy. He can make us men that notice these things that need to be done in the house. Well, my wife's a puzzle, I don't know how to figure it out. Stop saying that. Start asking, okay, God, you made this woman like a puzzle, make me the grandmaster of puzzles. What do we need to do here? He will answer these questions if we take that time with him. Like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

That was like the dopest mic.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:31

You're you're muted, Cody, I think. There you go.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:34

Here I am. Here's a very tactical thing to do if um you were raised in a thing in a in a place that you didn't have an example of how to do empathy. I don't do empathy. Like, right, you if that's you, I don't do empathy. Go and ask your wife what she does that sucks the life out of her. And then take that thing from her and you do it for a month. And and as you do that thing for the month, you will realize how bad it can suck. And you will develop this empathy. You'll develop, oh, that's what that feels like to be in those positions. So you'll build gratefulness for her, you'll build uh an empathy for putting yourself in her shoes, and you will model a servant culture in your home. There's three big things you can get off that one tactic. There's two pieces that I tell everybody all the time companies, they're laws of culture. It's like gravity. You can deny that it exists, but if you jump off of a building, you will hit the ground and go splat. The laws of culture are clarity wins. We're simple people. We don't want to spend a lot of brain and energy on stuff. We do so clarity wins. If we can get clear, and people follow people. They don't follow processes, they don't follow what you say, they follow what you do. And if you try to outserve your wife, you're gonna build this momentum where she's gonna, okay, well, now I gotta outserve him. The two of you guys, if you get into if you've ever been in a sweet spot in your marriage and you'll go in and out of them if you stay married anytime, it's I guarantee it's when you're doing this, when you're outserving each other. It's like you can't, I can't quite figure out how to outserve her, you know, or her just and she's doing the same, and all of a sudden that's the sweet spot. It's like, okay, well, do that one tactical thing. What sucks in your life, babe? And let me take that from you, and I'm gonna do it for a month. And if that means you have to stay up from 11 to 12 and you're waking up at 3 or 4 a.m. to go to work, and you have to wash the dishes to reset the do it, just do it for a month. Do it for two months. Do it, do it do whatever it takes for you to build the muscle memory for a person who has empathy towards it. It's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

I'm gonna let that be the final word for today. And Cody, thank you for challenging every dude to process this. That would be a challenge, not something to listen to and just say, Oh, that's a good idea, but to legitimately go to your spouse and say, What's one thing that SUCK's I'm gonna do it for the next month and build empathy. Here's the reality as we close the show is that most of us are trying to ask our wives to fill things inside of our lives that they were never meant to do. And John chapter 15, the father, you know, through the Son teaches us that we have to abide in Him and Him in us, and we will bear much fruit. What does that look like for your marriage? What does fruit look like inside of your marriage? Well, it starts not with your wife, it starts with your time with God. You spending time on your knees, authentically crying out and praying and talking to him. And what you're gonna do is three things are gonna flow out grace, forgiveness, and obedience. If there was anything that I can say about saving your marriage, having a mindset of legacy or a vision for the future, it works itself out inside of grace, forgiveness, and obedience. That is what the father wants you to do in order to save and have the best marriage possible. You don't need a new spouse, a new spouse. You need to love your wife like God has loved you, not counting her trespasses against her, but loving you the way that he sees his son. And so thank you again. I hope this added a little bit of value. If you know anybody that's going through a difficult time, please share this podcast with them. For us, a win is saving a few family trees. Thank you guys for being on the show.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:29

Good stuff, dude. Thanks, Joshua. Good to be with you guys. Hey, Kirk, good to see you, dude. Y'all too, man. That's great. Forgiveness is more for you than them.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

I had inner peace for the first time in my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:45

It's just Jesus. Just Jesus.