Carl Thomas: The Top 5 Questions Men Ask About Porn — Addiction, Shame, the Brain & How to Actually Break Free | Dudes Without Dads

SPEAKER_00 0:00

why can't I stop watching porn even when I hate it? Number two is is porn addiction real or am I just weak? Number three, how do I stop watching porn for good? Number four, does porn mess up your brain or your marriage? Number five, this delay to ask you now to a question is just can God forgive me if I keep going back to porn.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

My life is by rolling down hell depression, alcoholism, incarceration, and death about a spare one guy who showed up is just easy. If you can give a man clarity and community he can start to live out his purpose you can break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trained men how to become the dad they never had welcome to the Dudes Without Dads podcast. Hey today we're gonna be hitting a conversation and a discussion that you are very familiar with. You are CEO of Triple X Church is it right?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah I mean Triple X Church is really a website a lot of people get confused on that. Um it's uh the organization is actually a live pre ministry that's a nonprofit so I'm the founder and executive director slash CEO. But triple X Church is probably one of our uh assets if you will right ministry assets so that's the that that's the one that's been around the longest so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Well I remember you guys being around for you know how many years now have y'all been structured?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Well triple X Church was originally a creation of fireproof ministries who was a different nonprofit and that was about that was over 20 years ago. So um and then we I worked for them for uh seven or seven or eight years I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

But then uh then when we started uh Live Free we uh we acquired um triple X church and everything and the fireproof kind of went the way of the whatever so um but that website itself's been around for over 20 years yeah 25 years I think now well we appreciate your knowledge we appreciate your ministry and experience and today we're we're jumping into a conversation where I pulled off basically what what we came up with today the top five questions that men are actually asking themselves as it relates to this conversation called porn and I'm sure you're very familiar with it but let me read it off to you real quick the top five are are this is what I I came up with today. It says why can't I stop watching porn even when I hate it number two is is porn addiction real or am I just weak number three how do I stop watching porn for good number four does porn mess up your brain or your marriage number five this will be the last one I ask you then I'll ask you a question it says can God forgive me if I keep going back to porn if you've asked any of these questions out loud I want our listeners to dial in take a listen we've got an expert who deals with this all the time have you first of all Carl have you heard these questions or have you dealt with this before?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah yeah like a variation multiple variations but yeah like those are probably I would agree that those are probably close to the top five I mean there might be one or you know we get we get we used to get a lot of we one question you get a lot of times too is basically more related to relational um dissatisfaction i.e my wife's not having enough sex with me and so you know sometimes you get those questions like oh is porn okay if I'm not having sex like so that's a that's a big one too um permission based questions I guess you'd say but um but yeah I'd say those top five are they're they're definitely part of the hit parade for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Well I think our conversation today will hit some of those and and maybe the ones that you bring up based on your experience but just to start with to help us understand the scope of the conversation of when it comes to pornography how many men if you've got this stat would you say are struggling or percentages if you can give you know one out of 10 or you know how many what what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 4:51

The number has been bouncing around for the past 10 years. So I think it's and I also think it's an underreported number is about 50%. That's that's the number so 50% out of the church 50% in the church uh was it pastors I think they say between 30 and 40% of pastors um those are the numbers that have been flowing around for a while uh I think they're underreported but yeah 50% is the that's the big number you hear most of the time which you know correlates with a lot of other numbers uh what one and two divorces that sort of thing so it makes sense but it's probably a little underreported because um I've also seen some where they the numbers are smaller but I think a lot of the problems with those are possibly the way they ask the questions um you know because a lot of it when it's like do I have a porn problem um a lot of it depends on how the question's worded and what your definition of problem is. So if your definition of problem is I look at it more than once a week yeah then there's gonna be a lot of people that might say I don't have a problem. I got a conversation with a youth pastor one time and we were talking about it and he very openly said yeah I don't really have a problem with it I can look at it maybe once a month. I was like okay well I mean that's I don't know if I call it addictive per se but that's definitely not that's definitely a little bit of a problem right considering your profession but you know so it all depends on what you say.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

You just said fifty percent of men give or take a few points here a few points there are probably struggling with this thing called porn well struggling also would be a that would be that would be um also a a subjective term.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

So there's plenty of guys out there that don't think they're struggling at all. They use it brazenly and willingly so I'd say 50% of men out there use porn compulsively in some in some manner or form. Or you know so uh whether they feel bad about it or not bad about it in recovery not in recovery easily one out of every two guys is probably looking at porn on a regular on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

All right so let's start with a just a very baseline conversation and when we use the word porn what exactly are we talking about is it videos is it images fantasy and that's that's another top question we get a lot so what is porn uh I wrote a blog post years ago I said the better question is what is porn for me because um there's lots of forms of porn um you know and they all basically just because you're maybe looking at a topless models and the other one some other guy's looking at bikini picks or some you know it's like at the end of the day it really comes down to what is the goal right so if if the goal is sexual satisfaction on some level then I would say you're probably engaging in some sort of some form of pornography or sex really unwanted sexual behavior is the better way to term all of that, right? Pornography is one of the unwanted sexual behaviors but you know it's really just what's the purpose right so in one sentence if you were to and if you could do it in a sentence you would define porn as um any I guess any material or thought um that you utilize to gain sexual satisfaction right basically outside of natural like your wife for instance.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

And even in that case you know some guys that are struggling with pornography will often utilize their wives as a means of sexual release you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 8:41

So even then it can get kind of part in the ton part in the pun but sticky dude we're getting deep kind of really quick because you're peeling back layers where it's almost like okay now we gotta drill in here and have a long conversation about this part. Let me ask you this is porn only a problem the way you define porn thought image using things that you shouldn't be using for sexual gratification is it only a problem when it's daily or when does it become a real issue in your experience?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Well I mean question because that's gonna a lot of that's gonna be determined by the user. Right? So for instance if someone has no moral objections to it then they might it might not be a quote unquote problem until it gets to like a compulsive level. Right. Um I'm not saying they're right or wrong but they're not gonna think of it necessarily as a problem and if they went into a counselor's office they wouldn't they wouldn't talk about it because it's not it's not something that's really creating any sort of internal conflict. If you view it in a capacity then use is probably going to be a problem on some level right so uh but I would say to be like as universal as possible I would say it's a problem if you use it on any sort of regular basis um and you want to stop but you can't that then it's a real problem. I mean again I if you're married and you're using porn and it's not compulsively I'd still say it's a problem. Your spouse would probably agree with that. But again this all varies person to person their context their their their their uh view of morality whatever they're whether they're Christians non-Christian Buddhist it all varies but if you're using it on a regular basis you don't want to use it but you keep going back that's a problem that's that's there's a compulsivity there.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story and if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you I want you to stop and hit subscribe I am on mission to help men become the dads they never had. Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions identity issues and really what we need is we need a model. We need to see people that have broken the patterns and come alongside of them. I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey. Every Thursday we're gonna release a new episode each episode is going to help you and others become the dads they never had hit subscribe and share with a friend now let's get back to the story. Alright so we're unpacking the layer about you know when it becomes a problem what is porn and let me ask you this in your opinion is porn about lust from what you've seen is it really about sex is it really about you know endorphins but what would you say is is the root of using porn uh well I mean no I don't I don't in in general I don't think it's about lust and sex.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Now again when we're talking about it on a compulsive level um when you're when you're a little kid and you decide to look at nudie picks you know uh it's more about curiosity than anything. I mean you know you've never seen a pair of boobs before and so like wow that's pretty crazy and your brain is lit up right the flooding you with all sorts of things dopamine and everything else. So it's more about curiosity. I would say for some people yeah there is there's obviously a lust contingent or a sex contingent but when we're talking about compulsive behavior no it's not primarily about sex and lust. Now the way we interpret that is a whole nother story. So for instance we get I'll get guys that say well you know I just think I have a high libido. It's like well there's really no there's no clinical evidence that guys that struggle with porn just have a higher libido than somebody else but that's the way we experience it because the stuff going on in the background that is driving us to act out like that drive feels like oh I'm horny or oh I need sex right so we we translate it that way. It must be about sex it must be about horniness. I was talking to a counselor uh from a practice just the other day about this and I just said you know when you talk to guys that are in marriage issues and the question is well we don't have enough sex so I think that's why I use porn it's like there's a correlation but it's not caught but there's no causation right like if you're not having sex yes if if a lot of men who aren't having regular sex with their spouse very likely are what looking at porn but it's not a causation issue. There's a correlation because there's a lot of factors going on and one thing often goes hand in hand with the other. So there's intimacy issues there's all sorts of issues going on so yeah but so we translate it we just do the you know because human beings sometimes we're lazy and so we just go with the easy one. Oh I'm just I'm just horny not gaining enough sex.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Nope way deeper than that buddy when you say it's way deeper than that for dudes that are listening they're they're listening to this because somebody sent it to them that you know we're discussing this thing called porn or target demographic or dudes who grew up without a dad. So for the dude that's listening what are some of the things that might actually be the causation of let's say doing something you don't want to do as it relates to pornography.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Yeah um so we actually we're just we're launching a new course in the next few weeks called uh Rewired and uh they can learn more if it's okay I'll just rewired dot x3pure dot com. They can learn more there get on the waiting list because it's it's going to be coming out probably within the next month. We're still putting the finishing touches on a few of the videos but that's what this whole course is about. It's all about trying to help people understand the true nature of what they're dealing with. And so and there's a wide gamut um you know it's there's attachment wounds there's trauma issues but ultimately at the end of the day it it comes down to dysregulation. So um to really simplify this in the most simple terms and I'm not doing it any justify justification whatsoever our brains are amazing organism organs right I mean they're like God created something crazy like it's just amazing when you learn how your brain works and how many billions of neurons are firing every every second of our existence, right? But while it's the most amazing thing ever uh it also is something that can ruin us when we when things don't go right so um our brain is designed rather selfishly in terms of our brain one of one of our brain's main jobs is to keep us feeling okay right keep us feeling safe and secure and so safe and secure comes with like when you hear those words you think of you you might picture something that's very specific but from a neurological perspective it's more of when I mean safe secure it's like you're relaxed right you're you're you're connected you feel okay so when you don't feel okay from a neurological perspective you're insecure you're not feeling safe that doesn't necessarily mean you're you're in the corner cowering but you just don't feel right and your brain hates not feeling right so it's going to want to regulate and so when we when we've grown up in systems where we've supportive systems where we've you know had caregivers who took care of us and we had the opportunity to co-regulate with them and and uh learn adaptive measures on how to feel okay when we don't feel okay pornography isn't necessarily something we got to go to you know maybe a breathing technique maybe I'll take a walk with my friend maybe I'll just reach out maybe I'll just sit here and chill for a few minutes and catch my breath but when we haven't learned positive ways to adapt or co or regulate a lot of times our brain will shift to things that are maladaptive and those things like porn one of the reasons porn is such a common one for guys is because when again going back to the little kid example when you're exposed to it at an early level it just fires off all this stuff in your brain and your brain says wow that was pretty amazing and so it doesn't take long for your brain to make the association that when I don't feel good I know what's I know what feels amazing. Right. So ultimately it's dysregulation you know when we feel dysregulated we need to do something about it. And um the problem the one of the big problems with dysregulation is if we don't know how to regulate so uh there's a concept called window of tolerance. Like so when we're outside of our window of emotional tolerance um our brain goes kind of in a survival mode. And so it's more about what's expedient and what's going to get me feeling level as fast as possible than what's necessarily what's best for me long term. And so rational thinking values based thinking spiritual ideals like all these things kind of go out the window. It's not that we don't believe in that stuff anymore. It's not that we don't hold that stuff true. It's not that we don't want to follow the Bible or you know love our wife the best we can it's not that none of that changes. It's just that in that moment we basically to a degree lose access to that part of our brain that rational thinking part of our brain and we're now we're just reacting like an animal quite frankly like like a dog would right it's instinct what is going to make me feel good right now how do I feel secure and safe right now and so if we've learned through years and years of practice that porn will help me regulate when I'm feeling off that's what we go to even if we don't want to go to it you know in the moment that just goes out the window. I just need to get better so I would say that's ultimately the thing you're dealing with.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Wow I'm I'm thinking about thank you for sharing that and I thought you did a very good job sharing because there's so much truth to what you're sharing but have you ever heard and this might just only happen in the South have you ever heard pastors say you just don't love Jesus enough it ain't it ain't a neurological issue. You just need Jesus and you need to be um your sinner and you just need to spend more time on your knees and if you did that the Holy Spirit would come in and give you the ability to not give in to that what do you say to those individuals well first of all I would say they should probably get a little more training on how our brain actually works uh but you know that's not to rule out the miraculous right I'm never going to say like God couldn't you know tap you on your head with his magic fairy wand and remove all the lust in your life.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Not saying it's impossible. I'm not saying he couldn't cure your brain you know uh wash out all the dopamine issues that you have and cure all your attachment wounds. I'm not saying he couldn't do that. But generally speaking that's just not how he works. You know when you look at the prodigal son and like we get hung up on all sorts of aspects of the prodigal son but one of the things that I really enjoy when you when you read the story of the prodigal son is the son the son was doing what he thought was best. The dad knew that wasn't best but he let him go do it anyway right and he goes off and then he realizes how bad he screwed up and then he says he says you know what I need to get right with my dad. His dad didn't send him you know the stretch limo with the blingy wheels and pick him up and give him caviar on the way back. Like no the kid had to like pick himself up off the field and walk back home miles and miles and miles already hungry. Like he had to do some work. You know so that's that's the you know like yeah we obviously we need to love Jesus and obviously um there are people out there there there are people out there that they're acting out and they're doing it callously because they really don't care what God says. That's that's a different story right we're not we're not necessarily talking to that audience. If you're if you're somebody Says, hey, you know what? I know God says it's no good for me, but I don't really care. We got to get past that hurdle before we can talk about the rest of the stuff. I'm not saying you still don't have the same psychological issues going on in the background, right? That got you to this point. But we can't really work on it if that's not something you want to work on at this point. Right. We got to get past that hurdle. But getting past that hurdle is a lot more complicated. Well, once you get past that hurdle, it's a lot more complicated than just stop it. Way more complicated. Just stop it does not work. Um, and it's it's you know, I would I would argue that uh there's plenty of evidence in the Bible that would that would support that, but uh from a scientific perspective, it's clearly doesn't work. Like that's just not neurologically possible. It doesn't work like that. That's not how our brain works. Neuroplasticity, our brain changes and shapes, you know, it can change, but neuroplasticity, plasticity doesn't happen overnight. You don't go from jacked up to perfect in 24 hours. It just doesn't, that's just not how our brain works, you know. If it took you 20 years to walk into the woods, it's gonna take you a little more than 24 hours to walk out. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

So yeah, I mean, they're just dead wrong. And I think when that is when that is the message being preached, yeah, you're not you're not doing any like you might in your mind might be thinking, like, oh, I'm doing a good job here by challenging men. No, what you're actually doing is you're making their their climb out of the pit that much harder because now you're just loading them with a ton of shame, a ton of condemnation. Like shame is like the shame is the fuel and the catalyst. So it's it's not only the driver and a causer of of of addiction issues, it's also a d uh, you know, it keeps them going. So you're just pulling more gasoline on that fire by adding all that shame on them. So you're not helping them, you're actually hurting them. And it's so it drives me crazy when I hear pastors say stuff like that. I'm like, dude, a you're wrong, b, you don't know what the heck you're talking about, and C, you maybe you should consider another ministry because you're not actually helping people, you know, you're supposed to be a shepherd and you're just kicking them while they're down. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah, it is crazy. And I'm reading some books. Uh, I've never heard of this dude before, but a friend of mine turned me on to the I I'm not even gonna try to pronounce his last name, but Francis Frang Bing Gang. I don't know, but he's got so many great books. And he talked about how holiness gives birth to humility, and you meet so many pastors that are just prideful on this subject, and it has to be a question mark on their humility, and and according to Francis, he says the reason that they're they're not humble in this area is they haven't spent enough time looking at their own sin. And and what it and I know we're not getting into all that, but I'm sharing I wouldn't even go that far.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Like, I'm not saying he's not wrong about some pastors, I don't think it's I don't think in a lot of these cases, I don't want to say the majority of cases, let's just say many cases. I don't think in many of these cases there's anything um, you know, they're not trying to do it because, oh, hey, I want to cast shame on you. Like in their mind, they're being biblical, right? But you gotta understand, like from uh our evangelical culture, the way we read the Bible and the way it was actually written and contextualized for the time and period are two totally different things, you know. Even uh even in the even the term holiness, right? We hear in the modern church, we hear holy and we think good deeds, good behavior, good words, right? Like that's what it means to be holy. But that's not necessarily what it really means to be holy. Holy means set apart for a purpose. And uh, Tim Mackey, uh Bible project guy, like one of my favorite, one of my favorites. And I remember I was on a podcast that is, and he was talking about holiness. He says, Listen, at the end of the day, this is gonna sound sacrilegious, but your bathroom is holy and your kitchen is holy because it's set apart for a purpose. You don't cook in your bathroom and you don't poop in your kitchen, they're holy, like they're set apart. So, like we are a holy people because we're set apart for a specific purpose. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we don't screw up along the way, like we're set apart, and set apart people. Yes, we're supposed to act a certain way, we're supposed to behave a certain way, you're supposed to think a certain way, but but that doesn't necessarily mean that we get it right 24-7 because we don't. But I just think honestly, I just think it's they're reading the Bible from a from a 20th century western mindset, and they have absolutely zero training in psychological in psychological understanding. I went I went to seminary, I got my degree uh before I started going to counseling, getting going to counseling school as well. And uh, I talk about in my one in my book, but like the thing that cracked me up is if you, and I won't mention the university, but if you pull up the degree plan for their seminary and multiple, uh they had a degree plan for online ministry, online ministry. Now think about that. Where does 90% of 95% of pornography happen online, right? Online ministry, not one class, not one class on pornography, uh online behavior, uh sexuality, nothing, nothing, not not anything. There were they you know, there's Greek, learning Greek, learning Hebrew. And then you send this poor kid out. It's like, hey, you're gonna run an online ministry. And what's the if he's running an online ministry, what's one of the first emails he's gonna get? Some young 23-year-old guy saying, I can't stop looking at porn, and he's gonna go off his seminary training and have no clue what to say. So he's gonna say, Pray harder, try more, just love Jesus more, you'll be okay. The Holy Spirit will pull you out of the fire at some point.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you you showing compassion to the language in which we're communicating, and but also want to you know, give the reality to the dudes that you're working with. I'm questioning how many of them have been told, either internally or externally, that they're disgusting, um, they're just not trusting Jesus enough, or you know, use whatever word you want to, the thing that promotes shame. I'll question how many of those dudes that you end up working with, and you're like, How do I help this person realize that they're not losers and they're loved and they're forgiven? How do you is that something first that you see? And then how do you help someone like that?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah, I mean, if they don't understand really what they're dealing with, I'd say every every guy I've ever worked with is experiencing that on some level, the whole shame, disgust, what is wrong with me? I experienced it on myself for years. Like, what the heck is wrong with me? I asked that. I remember I I I actually prayed multiple times to God. I was like, God, just take away my sex drive. That's crazy when you think about it. As a man, like just take away my sex drive. I'm fine if I never have sex again, but I just don't want to have sex again. That but it wasn't like that, wouldn't have fixed anything, right? That wouldn't have fixed anything. Um, it might have fixed me not going to pornography, but I would have just gone to something else to deal with the the issues I was carrying around that I never dealt with. Like it something would have um you ever read the book Body Keep Score?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I mean, great book, right? And like one of the one of the things in there that I love, and I'm I'm gonna butcher it because I don't remember the exact verbiage, but basically he's talking about this this woman who was a victim of sexual abuse, and so she uh she compulsively over ate. He said that's very common, right? It's has to do with like loathing and self-loathing, all sorts of things anyway. But then she went on a diet, lost all this weight. Um, all of a sudden, guys were hitting her up. So this guy at work uh decided to connect with her, she went home, tried to have sex with him, had uh like flipped out on him, uh, got violent, stopped dating, uh, and then came back into his office, like, I don't know, six months later, larger, fatter, whatever you want to call it, than she was the first time. And he said, like, the problem is when we remove the cure, because the reality is porn is a cure for what ails us, it's a terrible cure, but it is a cure, right? So when we remove the cure without addressing the the illness, one of two things will always happen. Either they're gonna relapse, and when they relapse, it's gonna be twice as bad as before, or they're just gonna find a new cure. That's how it works. Like there's no such thing. And in my case, I didn't find a new cure, but when I when I found sobriety, and I will call it sobriety at that point, I was seven years in the ministry with triple X Church. I was doing fine, I was not looking apart, I was not wanking off, I wasn't doing any of this stuff. Um, but I had never dealt with my issues, my psychological that I didn't realize we're even there. And then when I got uh when I got a promotion, I left Triple X Church, came back for about two years. I got a promotion, got crippling panic attacks, like panic disorder, crippling. And I was just like, what is going on? And it wasn't until I got engaged in counseling and figured out that a lot of it was coming from like un unrisk daddy issues, you know, unaddressed daddy issues, self-worth issues, imposter syndrome issues. It wasn't until I realized that that was the stuff driving because the thing was my system, I had no, I wasn't regulating. I never learned how to regulate in a healthy way. And the problem was I wasn't regulating anymore in an unhealthy way. And your brain can't stay maxed out, stressed out 24-7. Eventually it's gonna snap. And so that's what was happening to me. I was just panic disorder, panic disorder, panic disorder. So, you know, if you don't, if you don't fix the problem and then you remove the cure, nothing's gonna change. You know, it's it's there's still gonna be problems, it just might be a different problem.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Do you have an incredible story of overcoming the home that you were raised in, or maybe the father wounds that were placed inside your life? If so, I want to share it with other dudes without dads. Simply go to dudeswithout dadspodcast.com and apply to be a guest on the show. The reason it's important to share your story is because when you share what God has done for you, it helps other men believe that God can do it for them, and he can. To share your story, head over to Dues Without Dads Podcast today. Wow. Uh thank you for sharing. That was super helpful. Um the question that I'm trying to process for a dude that's listening and thinking about all the work, and maybe they're even unaware that the behavior that they're exhibiting to regulate is actually something super um deep that goes back to whether it's father wounds or whether whatever it might be. Is freedom actually possible for them?

SPEAKER_01 34:04

I hope so. I mean, because I don't know what I'm doing it. I mean, for me, I and I I talk about this actually in this course, but that we're doing, but I think one of the things that we fall into a trap of, and this is I would say especially common with Christian men, because we're we're bringing with us all that bad teaching, Christian guilt, Christian shame, you know, so it's especially problematic with that bunch. Um, but I think a lot of guys come into this process, this recovery process, if assuming they want to, right, with the with the false ideal or assumption that, well, I guess a false ideal, that what I really want to do is I want to never face temptation again. Like in their mind, that's the that's the perfect scenario, right? I will never look at a girl's boobs again. I will never want to go on Netflix late at night. The thought won't even cross my mind. That is the ideal. And we all know that that is kind of unrealistic, right? So then we feel like, well, this can never, this is never possible. I'm always going to be quote unquote battling this issue. But what I would tell them is like, you got the wrong target, like that's the wrong goal. The goal is not I will never be enticed again. The goal is I want to have the agency to be able to just say no without not know like white knuckling. That's different from agency. White knuckling is I can't give in, I can't give in, I can't give in, I can't give in. Let me snap my rip, my my wrist with rubber band 20 times until like that's white knuckling. Okay, agency is being able to actually evaluate the situation, acknowledge that, yeah, there's a benefit, but it's not really what I want. This is better, you know. It's it's the A or B situation. A looks good. Yeah, I'm at the gym. That looks good. Um, but B, B is a better situation for me. So I'm gonna go with B. Right. So it's not it's not like that, you know. Agency is what we should be after, not not the absence of temptation. Temptation is gonna be there if if and and this isn't just spiritual, like neurochemically. We there's uh I'm not gonna go super deep, but there's let's just put there's a there's a chemical pro there's a they call it a transcriptor protein in your brain that um works in your midbrain and uh its main fun, like one of the things it does is it forms a connection, right? It's like it's like a connection uh protein, like it recognizes that A feels good and that I like it. So it kind of uh, you know, it it builds, like I said, a connection or an attraction to it. Okay. Now, when we get into addiction, you get into tolerance and all this stuff, and you know, again, that we go super deep. But when you have sobriety, 60, 90 days of sobriety, that doesn't that doesn't fix the emotional issues, mind you. But when you have, can you hear that? Sorry, that was my that was a water pump or whatever. Um, when you have 60 to 90 days of sustained sobriety, scientifically speaking, those chemicals, a lot of those chemicals will wash out, reset, recalibrate, right? That's why you see guys talking about dopamine detoxes and all this stuff. They get it half right. It's not fully right, but they're getting it half right. The crazy thing about that particular protein is that while you might not feel the attraction or attachment to that to pornography in this case as strongly, right? You won't feel it on an addictive level. It never leaves you. There's always going to be some sort of recognition in your brain that that feels good, that I like that. And so that's why, you know, when you talk about pick your poison, that's that's not just a clever saying, it's true. I I'm not worried about ever relapsing with heroin. Never did it, have no desire to do it. It's never gonna be appealing to me. Um, I'm not, you know, drugs, alcohol, like those things aren't things that appeal to me on an addictive level whatsoever. Sex, I'm not worried about relapsing per se, but I know for a fact if my life completely went to shambles and in a moment of bad, in a moment of like just unrelenting stress, I didn't know how to regulate. If I was if I was gonna go to something, it's gonna be sex because that's what my brain formed an attachment with. Like it's good, it's there, that imprint is there, no matter what I can do about it. But like I said, just because I recognize that like even today, hey Carl, would you like to look at porn? Yeah, there's part of me that recognizes there's pleasure in it. Yeah, I mean, there's but no, I don't want to look at it because like I don't want all the stuff that goes along with it, it's not worth it to me. But I'm not gonna deny that there's a pleasurable aspect to it. Sorry, there is.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

I I got one question related to what you're saying, then I'm gonna do a rapid fire and we're gonna close it down. Okay. Um with with this protein, and you are you referring to it as protein A?

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Yeah, it's a transcriptor protein. I think it's uh Delta Foss B. I think Delta Foss B is what it's actually.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Can this be anything? Can it be sugar? Can it be chocolate chip cookies in my context? Or is there certain things it can't be?

SPEAKER_01 39:49

I'll be honest, I can't tell you 100% because I'm not a I'm not a neurologist, right? But I from what I understand, um it would it it could apply to any sort of behavioral issue, right? So for a guy who's a gambling addict, it would be gambling for because there's the reward, right? It's a reward that is associated with that element, right? So so yeah, could it be, I would, I would say most likely, uh, and I I reserve the right to be scientifically wrong on this, but I would say if you're a compulsive eater, yes, a crispy cream donut could be the thing that you will always find you know appealing on some level.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that because I think about how in the Christian worldview, we often demonize one habit or uh self-regulation mechanism, and we give permission to the ones that we actually think that are okay. And I'm like, you know, I don't know. I think you know, I was a student pastor for years. There's kids that cut themselves, and uh as a as a result, it's a way of self-regulating. And I look at um certain eating disorders with bulimia, and uh and it's like maybe there's a lot of this self-regulation that's actually going on, and we don't recognize it's it's more than um you know something spiritual because we're also minds, we're also bodies, and there's things that have happened in our past. So here's here's what I want to do. I would like for you as as much whatever your personality is to be 100% as Carl as Carl can be. If someone that is your best friend is asking you these questions and you're gonna be blunt, I want you to answer the next five as blunt as possible, and it's a rapid fire round. Can you handle that?

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yeah, um, I I don't think I can't be blunt, so that should be pretty easy for me.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

These are our top five questions that we started off with. Carl, why can't I stop watching a porn even when I hate it?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Uh, because you um because in the moments when you feel like you need it, that the part of your brain that would be the break on that is is kind of shut out of the picture, right? So you're not listening to your thinking brain anymore, you're only listening to your animal brain.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Is porn addiction real or am I just weak?

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Um, you're not weak. It is academically, empirically speaking, there's a lot of debate on whether it's actually a quote unquote addiction. Um, but I would say without a doubt, yes, it's it's a it's a real thing. Yes, I would say. Um, but it's not you're weak. That's just compulsive, compulsivity. It can be compulsive with anything.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Carl, how do I stop watching porn for good?

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Um you gotta do the work. So you gotta do recovery. Uh you gotta you gotta connect with others, get in a support group, probably see a therapist, that's a good thing, but you gotta do the work. It's as simple as that. It's not gonna happen uh on it's not gonna happen by chance. You're not gonna be able to just stop doing it because you want to stop. You you gotta do the work, and you know, the work involves a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Does looking at porn create brain damage?

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yes. Well, it creates brain alterations, so you know, dopamine levels get jacked up. Um, yeah, like I said, these chemicals, Delta Foss B and the other ones, Kreb, they build up to an unhealthy level because of tolerance. And yeah, it definitely resets the template. And the younger you are, it actually can do some permanent things to your brain structure. So yeah, it definitely alters your brain, put it that way.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Can God forgive me if I keep going back to porn over and over and over again?

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Well, A, um, theologically speaking, he's already forgiven you. So there you go. He's already forgiven you. But um, yeah, of course. Like, I mean, he talks about and endless, endless forgiveness, right? That doesn't mean we should take advantage of it. Uh, but again, I also think there's a big difference between the guy who keeps going back and doesn't care, right? He's like, Yeah, I know this is wrong, but I just don't care. Big difference between that guy, he's still forgiven, don't get me wrong. Big difference between that guy and the guy you're talking about, who's probably keying that in. The guy that's keying that in doesn't want to use it. So he's not doing it because he doesn't care about his faith. He's doing it and he hates himself for it. So different different situation, different scenario, but God can forgive either of them, of course. And he does. It's not it's not even a question. Like he does forgive you.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Carl, there's a man listening right now who feels like porn has stolen from his life. If you could give him one next step, not 10, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yep. Um, connection, get get connected, get in a support group, find an accountability partner, talk to a good friend, whatever. But we need connection as human beings, not just spiritual beings, but physical beings. Connection is critical for healthy human function. If you're not connected, if you're isolated, there's only so much you can do. You got to get connected. So, and that also incorporates therapy, all sorts of things. Getting get connection, right? Support groups are a great place to start. You can figure it out from there.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

I want to find out more about your ministry, the tool that you've launched. Where should I go?

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Uh, rewired. So r-e-w-i-r-ed.x threepure.com.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Forgiveness is more for you than them. I had inner peace for the first time in my life. It's just Jesus. Just Jesus.