March 20, 2026

Pornography, Fatherlessness & Identity: What Happens When No Dad Is There to Guide His Son

Show Notes
Transcript

What does a boy do with what he discovers when no father is there to explain it? In this raw and honest roundtable, Joshua Brown sits down with five men — Caleb, Gabriel, Antoine, Cody, and Jason — to answer a question most men have never said out loud: where were you the first time you were exposed to pornography, and who did you go to afterward? From the projects to the woods of Tennessee, from late-night HBO to a father's hidden tape — every story is different, but the wound is the same. No guide. No father. Just a secret that slowly shaped everything.

This episode traces the direct line between fatherlessness, early exposure to pornography, and the deformation of a man's identity — how boys who had no one to run to built their understanding of women, sex, and self-worth from what they found in the dark. But it doesn't stop at the wound. These men also talk about what it looks like to bring secrets into the light, how confession and community changed their marriages and their minds, and why healing starts not with becoming a better father — but with learning to be a son of the Most High first.

If you grew up without a dad to guide you, if you have carried shame in silence, or if you are trying to break a cycle for your own kids — this conversation was made for you.

In this episode:

Why fatherless boys rarely told anyone what they found
How early pornography exposure deforms identity, self-worth, and the way men see women
The moment one man told his wife everything — and what she said back
Why isolation is the enemy of healing
What it means to kill sin before sin kills you
How to become the dad you never had by first becoming a son of the Most High

Resources mentioned:

James 5:16 — Confess your sins to one another and you will be healed
Dallas Willard — The Divine Conspiracy
Jonathan Edwards — Be killing sin or sin will be killing you
dudeswithoutdadspodcast.com — Apply to be a guest

Connect with Dudes Without Dads: 🎙️ New episodes every Thursday 🌐 dudeswithoutdadspodcast.com 📲 Follow on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok & Facebook

Dudes Without Dads is the podcast that trains men to become the dads they never had. If this episode added value to your life, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a man who needs it.

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For me, it's like three, four years old, and it's every type of form and every type of event moving forward.

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All I remember is being exposed to pornography, whether it was cards, whether it was every single type of magazine I've I've seen.

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So when you when you're in the projects or in different places, everybody's got stuff somewhere.

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I was 11 and it was HBO and it was late at night, and you know how like it's like it was like the fuzzy screen, and you're changing the channels like, what is that?

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This is great.

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And then that was, I mean, I was 11 years old.

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And then uh a year later, uh I lost my virginity.

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My life was just spyrolling downhill depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death by despair.

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One guy who showed up is just Jesus.

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If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose.

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You can break generational curses of alcoholism.

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Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had.

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Hey, welcome back to the Dudes Without Dads podcast.

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Thank you for tuning in today.

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And today we're gonna be getting into a conversation that I do believe is vitally important, especially as it relates to our identity, our formation, uh, how we operate inside the world.

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And so I'm gonna be really blunt today.

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We've got our uh round table discussion.

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Uh, I don't know if they're hostages or or what, but we've got Caleb and Gabriel and Antoine and uh Cody with us, and then we've got a guest named Jason.

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And so you'll get to know their personalities a little bit as we answer this question.

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If you're just now getting the podcast because you saw the title had something to do with pornography, I am trying to journey a roundtable discussion on it on what it looks like to become the dad you never had.

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So whether or not you had a dad who abused you, neglects you, or absent, or just not intentional.

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Um, we're trying to say, okay, if I had no blueprint whatsoever and I had to figure out how to become the dad you never had, that's been the progression.

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And so week one, forgiveness, week two, the demons are coming back, uh, week three, a prayer life, and week four or month four was about the Holy Spirit.

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I gotta have the spirit inside of our lives and active.

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Today, we're getting into things that I would say have formed us and how we think and how we behave, but we've never really had a conversation like you're going to hear today, I don't think.

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And so let me just throw it out there, and I'm gonna ask a question, and then our listeners, I want you to think while you're listening when is where were you when you first got exposed to that which you would call pornography?

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So that's the question I'm asking our our guys on this roundtable discussion.

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Can you remember how old you were, where you were, um when you first got exposed to what you would look back now and call yeah, that that was that was pornography.

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And I'll let you guys just share as you guys feel led.

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I was 11 and it was HBO and it was late at night, and you know how like it's like it was like the fuzzy screen, and you're changing the channels like, what is that?

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This is great, and then that was I mean, I was 11 years old, and then uh a year later, uh I lost my virginity, and it was just like that became my entire identity from that point forward.

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Like if the audience can't see, I'm I'm five foot five with shoes on, so I'm not like I didn't have a whole lot going for me, and so like having girls around it like kind of built that identity, but it really like I as soon as you asked the question, like that moment just popped into my mind.

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Five, five, but you look good though.

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Thank you.

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Like somebody asking about rims, like those 20s, no, they 10, but I keep them clean.

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It's funny you mentioned um the uh memory, and I I it's it I'm fascinated by the human brain and things we store.

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Uh I I have I haven't had I don't know that there's something way back in there.

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Uh I haven't ever thought about the first time until you just you said it.

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Um I was about 11 or 12 and I was in the woods in Tennessee uh with some, we were just playing, you know, I don't know, goofing off in the woods.

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And one of my buddies like, hey, I think there's a magazine around here somewhere.

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Like, like in the woods?

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Like what do you mean?

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And some dudes had had taken uh, I think uh a Playboy or a hustler or something, and uh literally just it was on the forest floor.

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And uh so uh that that was my I was like you, I'm like holy cow.

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I've it's it I've told both of my sons don't go down that road because it it's a it's a kind of intoxification.

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The level of of in it will intoxify you in in ways um I can't even put words on.

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It will make you drunk in ways that feel like the best thing that you've ever seen.

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Um yeah, so yeah, I was 11.

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11 or 12.

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So yeah, um, I was I was about seven years old, six, seven years old, man.

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We're hanging out at one of my buddies' house in our complex, and he uh he just I remember like it was yesterday, it's funny that you just said that.

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But our brains can store, you know.

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I still picture my friends, man, and he said, Hey, do you guys want to you want to see my you guys want to see a movie?

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I'm like, what?

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All right, why not?

00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.519
You know, hold on a straight porno, dude.

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And it was just like as a kid, dude, you're first grade, you're just watching this, like you don't even know what to do, you know.

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But the strange thing was I kept staring at it, you know, it's just kept like, whoa, man, like what are they wrestling?

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You know, you don't know what you don't know what's going on as a kid, right?

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You know, and but it did something to me, man.

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It did, it did something to to my brain, you know, and that I didn't know.

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So for me, that that that's when it was very, very, very young age, man.

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Yeah, I was probably I I don't remember the first time that I that I saw, but I do remember the first time I realized that something was off, and I was probably eight.

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I'm thinking about the day that it was at Christmas, or it's Christmas, Christmas Eve, we're at my grandmother's house, and I remember the night before having looked at stuff by myself.

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I'd always been, you know, my older brothers or somebody had been around and left stuff out or left something up on the computer, and I had I'd found stuff, and uh, but I had like sought it out, and I remember thinking the next day I was sitting and looking and watching my cousins play Nintendo, like the old school Nintendo, and I remember thinking to myself, I still believe I was thinking about whether Santa Claus is real or not.

00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:54.079
And I'm having like this dichotomy between so when I go, I went through years of therapy and going back and trying to revisit these things, and I remember sitting there going, dealing with like this is an adult thing, and this is a child thing, and like these are it was incompatible things happening in my brain.

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I just remember that realization of being like I still be able to believe in Santa Claus, and I just watch just hardcore pornography.

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Wow, wow, man.

00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:13.600
Um yeah, like like Jason said, the the memories uh that that you store are crazy.

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I can remember all three of my kids being born.

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I I know the temperature of the day, I know the time of day.

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Very, very vivid.

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You know, almost to everyone who was in the room, uh, in the time that I got exposed to pornography.

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Um I I feel like there's maybe two instances that's that's kind of crossing my brain here.

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Uh one, I think I I think I found a just a box of magazines.

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Uh, and I don't know, I can't remember if they were Playboy or something like that, but I think it was like Playboy, and remember the Lowrider magazines?

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But you had the nice cars, but you had the women too.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It was like I think the lowrider was the introductory into that.

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And anytime I see anything like that, it just kind of really triggered that.

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And so yeah, I I remember finding finding a magazine, and it it must have been some type of Playboy's dirty.

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I felt like it's maybe, and it I just remember pages being torn, but it was enough to definitely enough to get the picture of what I was uh ingesting.

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And I I didn't fall into like a trap of pornography where I wanted to see it and view it all the time, but anytime it would pop up or I would get exposed to it through friends, I I would kind of know what I was looking at a little bit.

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I still was a little dumb and naive a little bit.

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Uh, and so, but it did trigger some some moments of even when I was younger.

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Um maybe six, maybe five, where my little cousin, uh she was a girl who would take me into the closet and wanted to kiss all on me and do all kinds of stuff to me, and not, you know, you just think you're just playing like kids, and it it did kind of trigger some of those moments coming back up.

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And so, yeah.

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Man, just you guys mentioning all that, thank y'all for being vulnerable.

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Thank you for sharing.

00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:14.639
These are conversations that I don't know if we ever think about because it's in the past, and sure ain't nobody asking you when's the last time or first time you ever looked at pornography.

00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:22.559
But as you guys say it, for me, it was like three, four years old, and it's every type of form and every type of event moving forward.

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All I remember is being exposed to pornography, whether it was cards, whether it was every single type of magazine I've I've seen so when you when you're in the projects or in different places, everybody's got stuff somewhere.

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And so you're seeing it.

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And whether you're walking down the street, I remember in Alabama, I'd walk down the road as a kid, seven, eight years old.

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I didn't say six, seven, like my friend did.

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Uh but I was seven or eight.

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I remember walking down, going through trash and finding dirty magazines and pulling them off, and they were wet, and you're pulling them, pulling them out.

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And I remember finding things in places that I can't share on a podcast.

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Just uh just it's I mean, I would be embarrassed to share the things that I've seen.

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Um, but what I what I will say is all I can remember are constant exposures, VHS to porn.

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And I the first time was probably three or four years old, and it wasn't just one time, it was it would be a progressive.

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So I've got two follow-ups to this.

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When you saw porn, did you go to your dad or chat with a father-like figure and share, hey, what is this?

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Hey, I saw this.

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So share with me if you can.

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Did you go to anybody to share what you had saw?

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You remember in Genesis where Adam goes and hides?

00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:56.399
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:58.000
Yeah, man.

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Well, I just I just went to my friends because I thought it was cool and I thought I was cool.

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So I had one or two friends, and I'm like, guys, I figured it out what we're gonna be doing for the next 20 years.

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Like, I I was just so excited about it, and but no, like I didn't have that kind of comfortability to talk to any adult.

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It was like yeah, like I wanted to keep the secret, I wanted it to be a secret, and then I wanted it to be like it was like a cool thing because I didn't think at least kids were doing that yet.

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It's like I discovered something, and it was just it was the most poisonous thing that I could have done.

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But I when you asked that question, I couldn't imagine what it would have been like to have an adult male role model that I would have gone to and have them pour into me in that moment and help me understand what was happening.

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That would have been, I mean, I I that would have changed the trajectory of my entire life from that point forward.

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Yeah, for sure.

00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:10.639
I've never actually thought about that how I how much I hid that and how much I like didn't go to my parents.

00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:11.039
Right.

00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.399
That actually had, you know, we've talked about a couple of times.

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I my dad was very involved and was, I mean, as much as he was a blue-collar dad and he worked 70 hours a week, but he was he was when he was there, he was involved.

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And uh I do remember though probably being about 18, 17, 18, and talking to my dad about it.

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And at that point, him saying, Yeah, you know, I've just never I've never had that as a problem for me.

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I have no idea what it's like.

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You should, you know, talk to some guys that maybe do know what it's like.

00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:58.320
So I didn't I didn't go to my dad um because my dad had uh his own stash of magazines, and I found that out later.

00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.600
Um I'm like you, you know, Curse.

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I I I went to my friends like, have you seen, hey, like do you do you gotta see this?

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Like, I mean, and it wasn't like it wasn't like creepy, it was like this, this, this is out, this is the thing.

00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:21.600
Like wait, women can, are you kidding?

00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:27.200
And and it I it was so um literally mind blowing.

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And it's fascinating what the devil does because um I've made it a point with my boys to say, listen, uh, I think one of the biggest mistakes the Christian community makes is we um we have fallen into this demonic trap of uh no, no, no, run, run, run.

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Anything related to women's bodies, you know, we are like, and and no, you're supposed to be magnetically like I am I've been married over 30 years, and my wife is still like, is this all you think about?

00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:06.399
I'm like, I other than steak, yeah, maybe in in curve season and deer season, we know, depending on which hunting season's coming.

00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:11.679
But yeah, pretty much food, wind's hunting season, and and you know, naked, yeah, sure.

00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:31.200
And and and I think that what I've talked to my boys about is like if you did not, my youngest son's 15, and he said about six months ago, he's like, Dad, I'm having these thoughts, you know, and we're driving down the road and we have a lot of uh uh truck in the truck discipleship, literally.

00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:35.039
That's I do a lot of that with my boys on purpose and driving down the road.

00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:38.080
And he said, I know it's gonna get better when I get married.

00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:43.279
It's gonna get worse, it's gonna get worse because it's never gonna end.

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He's like, Are you just like son?

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It's never gonna end.

00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:51.840
But I I'm trying to show him the glory of God in that um and and why that is.

00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:55.600
But my dad, my dad was a phenomenal father.

00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.279
Um, didn't know Jesus.

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Uh my family didn't know Jesus, but my dad had a stack of hustlers and I knew where they were.

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And then he uh back in this dates me, but he had a beta tape, not VHS boys.

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Beta was the iPhone of the time, and uh it was way better quality.

00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:14.399
It's fascinating.

00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:25.840
I cannot tell you than when I found that tape and put it in the VCR, and I like you, when you saw one of y'all mentioned, like you were like, whoa, you know, what's going on?

00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:32.000
When I watched that movie, I probably watched that one VHS tape.

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I found it in middle school.

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He didn't know that I had ever found it.

00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:41.519
I would always rewind it back to where he started and or wherever he was in that tape.

00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:43.519
I would go back to that minute marker.

00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:45.279
Um, so he wouldn't know.

00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:54.159
And um I I would say hundreds and hundreds of times I watched that one video.

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I I haven't seen that video in over 40 years, and I can still almost tell you scene by scene, um, the women, what they look like, and all of it.

00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:06.880
It it it sears it.

00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:08.640
James Dobson said this one time.

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He's in heaven now.

00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:11.359
He was in Focus on the Family Major.

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If you don't know him, he was one of the OGs of Family, and he said, research on the human brain is that pornography is like a brand to a cat to cattle.

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It literally seers it in places in your brain that you can't get it out.

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:40.559
PhD researcher had done neurological research on that, and I believe it because even on this call, um, we all are going, wow, the vivid memory of the first time you ever saw it, it's it's fascinating.

00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:41.680
Yeah.

00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:48.960
Yeah, I've had a lot of I've had a lot of drugs in my system, and none of them have been that potent.

00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:56.720
I I remember, um, of course, when you grew up in the hood, everything's accessible from drugs to guns.

00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.680
Uh, but that that had Josh, you know what I mean.

00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.160
Uh Gabe, you probably know what I mean too.

00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:17.279
Uh, but when it comes to uh exposure to pornography and sex and things like that, it wasn't a full prominent thing where I was um you know governed at and where I lived at for the exposure to the magazine.

00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:26.559
And then remember when cable TV, inside of cable TV, it was pay-per-view, so you had to pay to watch these adult contents.

00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:37.440
But if you got lucky, you could find a static channel that accidentally slipped through and it was enough to satisfy the little evil soul.

00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.920
And I remember, like, while you guys are talking, it's jogging memories back, actually.

00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:46.240
I I feel a little uh a little disgusted and a little dirty by it.

00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:46.880
You know what I'm saying?

00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.839
Like, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, I remember that.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.319
Uh just just trying to find like a channel to like, can I see something?

00:18:54.559 --> 00:19:01.440
And uh definitely feel how how you guys feel it feel like you're in the Garden of Eden, you won't tell anybody that so it's like your own little world.

00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.359
That's probably to be honest, the first kept secret.

00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:11.519
I remember saying to myself, or like making sure nobody else caught me doing it, not even on why I was keeping it a secret.

00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:13.599
Not even sure why I wanted to hide it.

00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:27.519
It was just you kind of knew kind of innately that I don't think I'm supposed to be watching this, but you know, you know, it's it's it's here and um it's it's it's it's my own little little thing, man.

00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:38.400
And so I I definitely remember the the side effects and the the hunger or thirst for wanting to find different ways to to get a hold of it.

00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:40.240
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:47.359
Uh me personally, man, I I I wish there was parental involvement, man.

00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.240
There was none, there was no supervision, you know.

00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:54.720
It seemed like I live in a low-income apartment complex, you know.

00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:56.880
It's funny the things we could afford, right?

00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:04.079
You can afford those tapes and you can afford all this crazy stuff, but you can't afford to get your family out the hood, man.

00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.559
Whatever, that's a whole different subject, right?

00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:13.759
But um yeah, I think for us, we just kind of it was our thing, kind of like Cody said and stuff.

00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:23.680
It just became like, man, somebody uh next thing you know, somebody brought their their dad stuff, and it just became our thing, man, growing up.

00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:42.559
And I I wish I could I could tell you guys that it was just the season, but as you guys know, man, it's just something that shaped the way I viewed women, you know, shaped the way I I just oh okay, there they're gonna be objects, and I gotta I can't wait till I start doing what I'm watching to certain people, you know.

00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.079
So I think no parents at all, man.

00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.920
I can't recall an adult saying, What the heck are you doing, you little perverts?

00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.279
You know, nobody, man.

00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:52.160
It was a we were there.

00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.440
We had hours, you know, until somebody finally got hungry.

00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:57.759
All right, let's go, that's enough for today.

00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:04.000
So it's crazy to just process the effects and the memories.

00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:22.000
And if we don't take time to think about or to even process out loud, I don't believe we get healed miraculously without I know sometimes we do, but a lot of healing comes by talking out loud and saying out loud things that we've experienced in the past.

00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:30.079
So for our listeners that are processing, and that someone shared this with you, or you're listening to it, and you're like, What does this have to do?

00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:32.079
What should I where should I go?

00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.680
I want to start with this Imago Day conversation.

00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:46.960
If you're listening, the Bible makes it kind of clear that when God originally created man in his own image, he made them male and female, he created them in the image of God.

00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:52.559
What we have experienced in this life is a deformation of the image of God.

00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:59.599
And so, whether it be by genetics, nature, nurture, we have experienced things that have deformed.

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.880
Our brains and the way that we think and the way that we behave.

00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:10.960
So the question I just want to ask our guys, and you've most of you have already hit on it, but I want anyone that's listening to be clear.

00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:19.839
The reason we're covering this is you have to recognize that there's things that you believe that determines how you behave.

00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:23.839
And those beliefs can actually be based on lies from the past.

00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:29.440
And in order to get through certain things, you've got to replace your lies with truth.

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.079
So let's start with guys.

00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:44.160
Can you kind of concisely say how the deformation of seeing pornography and exposing yourself to it over and over again?

00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:56.160
Can you identify how it wrongly shaped the way that you viewed women, sex, pleasure, identity of who you were or who other people were?

00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.880
Would anybody like to try to answer the question that I'm attempting to say?

00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:05.279
I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story.

00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:12.160
And if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you, I want you to stop and hit subscribe.

00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:17.599
I am on mission to help men become the dads they never had.

00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:22.000
Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions, identity issues.

00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:24.480
And really what we need is we need a model.

00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.880
We need to see people that have broken the patterns and come alongside of them.

00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:32.799
I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey.

00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:35.920
Every Thursday, we're going to release a new episode.

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:41.039
Each episode is going to help you and others become the dads they never had.

00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.440
Hit subscribe and share with a friend.

00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:45.680
Now let's get back to the story.

00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:52.880
That's a that's a conversation I've had with my wife at different levels a couple of different times in our marriage.

00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:57.200
And you'll you guys will probably get that too.

00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:04.880
I mean, I um at one point I had the open kimono moment with my wife where I said, Hey, here's everything.

00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:06.880
And I started just going through it.

00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:15.359
And I said, When you want me to stop, you tell me to stop, and we'll I'll and so we had the open kimono moment about two years into our marriage.

00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:33.200
But I remember driving home from work that day, not even intending to say anything to her, driving home from work that day, and right as I pull into the apartment complex where we were staying uh in Louisville, I I this phrase in my head played, and it said, My marriage be damned, I have to be right with God.

00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.480
Like if she leaves me, she leaves me.

00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:38.000
I have to get this out.

00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:45.039
It was like it was like you were gonna, you know, you how you are when you're gonna throw up, like you you can't keep it down.

00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.039
It's like it had to come out.

00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.480
Um, but I let her into the most inner of inner circles.

00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.440
I had another group of guys that I let into a little bit deeper of a circle.

00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:17.279
But one of those, as I started to go through the process of doing that and talking out loud about it, that process was seven, eight, nine years and still ongoing of discovering just how affected I am by it, even in my day-to-day relationships now.

00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:28.559
Um now, when I when I say that I have relative sobriety, I I I go, okay, I've I've been a sex addict and I have a relative, I have relative sobriety.

00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:38.240
I've been through years of therapy, and I still to this day am starting to go, dang, the way that I've just interacted is probably formed by this thing.

00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:42.160
And I'm I'm discovering that it is it's constant.

00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:54.480
Yeah, you know, it we look at these things like we're on a spectrum, and you can put guys on a pedestal that seem like they've got it all together and go, okay, well, that guy's listen, it is it's all right still there.

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:59.039
When you're measuring people against uh each other, it's like, oh, he's he's over here and I'm over here.

00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:14.960
It's like, no, we're all kind of right here, you know, we're all just meshed up in this area, and then the holiness of God is in that's the that's the distance we're measuring against to call somebody holy is totally missing them, totally missing the mark for the definition.

00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:22.000
Um but one of the I'm curious, how did your wife, if you don't have you can only go into this as deep as you want to?

00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:42.880
Yeah, that's a fascinating thing that you talked about because I I know a lot of men that would never have that conversation because they're absolutely panicked about how their wife might respond, because um research indicates this is something that men, and when it's one of the many millions of ways we differ.

00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:55.680
Uh, when a guy sees a woman, let's say on a billboard with a Harley, and she's you know, she's scantily clad, or when, or, or even even more relatable, uh a woman turns a guy's head.

00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:01.759
Okay, it's usually in the brain out, and he's moving on to whatever's for lunch, most of the time.

00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.519
Um it wasn't personal for him, it just he saw it, moved on.

00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.480
Wow, holy cow! Okay, pretty cool.

00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:11.519
She turned my head.

00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:20.640
But if the woman sees that, her interpretation of that takes her into the abyss that she's not enough and and he's demonic.

00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:21.599
Why would he do that?

00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:25.119
He's an addict, and none of that might even be true at all.

00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:29.119
From the moment he saw it to the moment he moved on, might be a few seconds.

00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.079
And for her, the wound is so deep.

00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:39.279
And I think guys know that, and they don't share that with their wife because I don't know of a better way for handling.

00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.759
In most cases, not all for sure.

00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:44.160
In most cases, most women can't handle it.

00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.480
It's so personal, they take it personally when it wasn't.

00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.200
Um, and um, it's personal, yes.

00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:59.759
I I don't want to I want to back up and say, of course it's personal, it's just personal in a way that that it it's different for him than it is for her.

00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:05.599
And I'm just curious how how your wife, if you don't mind, did how did that go even on the surface?

00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:07.440
Um got two things.

00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:16.799
One is you everybody that's in this situation lives in the illusion that they will get away with it, that it's gonna continually be hidden.

00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:19.839
I'll go, I'll take it to my grave, nobody will ever find it.

00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:21.279
It's an illusion.

00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:22.160
Yeah, that's right.

00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:28.880
It will come out, yeah, it will be found out better on your terms than on other terms.

00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:29.519
Totally.

00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:39.119
Um, you don't want to get to the end of your life and face your creator having hidden all those things because now what you've built is the muscle memory for hiding, right?

00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:42.799
So you've built in yourself the muscle memory for hiding.

00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:46.640
What you need to rewire yourself is the muscle memory for coming clean.

00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:50.960
Yes, and and and I cannot describe that feeling.

00:28:51.200 --> 00:29:00.400
I've got I've got another story with this, but my my um my my wife's reaction was um she was hurt, she was very hurt.

00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:23.039
She cried, um, but even in the same night, I think it was the it was the Holy Spirit that helped her to get her head around it, even in the same night, her her term to me was really maybe the only thing she said that night was it's not me against you, it's me and you against whatever this is.

00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:27.440
And that reframed our entire marriage.

00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:33.839
And every piece of advice I've ever given to any marriage, whenever they start going, but he, but she, but this, but that.

00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:40.559
I'm like, you guys are on the same side of the table, and you know, you're fighting whatever is on that side.

00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:44.079
Yeah, you're and we always try to put ourselves against each other.

00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:52.000
But I had I can't describe the feeling of a clear head because a lot of us have never operated with a clear head, clear conscience.

00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:57.440
Um, but I remember sitting in church, I was uh at life church listening to Craig Rochelle.

00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:04.880
I had my cell phone sitting on my pocket, and this is several years removed from what I would call sex addiction, and I was I still struggled with it.

00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:06.079
Things still happened in my brain.

00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:12.480
I was still having interactions in the world that were not good, but I was constantly in this battle with it, and I was repentant.

00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:14.880
And uh, so I called it sobriety.

00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:22.480
I had my cell phone on my pocket, and my wife reached over for my phone, and she was gonna use my phone for the calculator or something.

00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:33.039
And if you I don't know if you guys have experienced this, anybody listening, but she grabbed my phone and my heart leapt like it used to whenever I had stuff to hide, right?

00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:39.440
So, my I mean, it was in my throat, heart rate through the roof like I was running a marathon.

00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:44.480
And she grabbed it and looked at it, and I kind of jumped, and she she saw me kind of jump at it.

00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.559
And and she goes, You all right?

00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:50.160
And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'm good.

00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:51.920
Like, take the phone.

00:30:52.079 --> 00:31:02.640
What's funny is I felt like I I had been removed from that feeling of having stuff to hide, and I felt like the Lord gave that to me at that point.

00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.039
Was like, remember what that was like?

00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.119
Remember how terrible that was?

00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:08.079
That's so good.

00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.640
Don't don't don't get back into trading this again.

00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.279
And I, you know, I don't remember where I was in my journey.

00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:17.759
I may have been really struggling with something at the time, but I remember that feeling again.

00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:26.559
Pastor Chris Hodges, I was at a uh conference with them when we were planting the church, and he said, You're only as sick as your secrets.

00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:31.359
That's good, and then he quoted David, quoted the Psalms.

00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:34.000
When I kept silent, my bones wasted away.

00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:36.559
James, James 5, 16.

00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:40.319
Confess your sins to one another, pray for another one another, you'll be healed.

00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:47.680
It's like, I mean, this is like the central thing inside of unity relationships.

00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:55.440
You can go church level organizationally, but it starts like uh it was uh GK Chesterton, another dead guy for you.

00:31:55.599 --> 00:32:00.960
Uh, they they they wrote GK Chesterton and and asked him, Hey, can you write us an article?

00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.160
We want to hear what is wrong with the world.

00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:09.519
And he wrote them back and said, I am sincerely GK Chesterton.

00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:13.039
It's like I I gotta start there.

00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:21.759
And if I'm not willing to have that vulnerability and I'm not willing to have that transparency, I'm gonna constantly live with this burden.

00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:30.319
And it's like that moment that it opens up, that it comes off my chest, off my shoulders, it's like this is the this is what Christ promised.

00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:37.599
Is uh Dallas Willard says it do what Jesus says and find his words to be true.

00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:38.400
That's it.

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:45.119
It's not Christianity, our faith is not ideological, it's not like it's philosophical.

00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:48.319
It's like, no, it's this is the most practical thing on the planet.

00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:50.319
It's true, it's either true or it's not.

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:56.000
And so as you apply these things, you find the fullness of life that he promised.

00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:58.000
It's like this is what he promised.

00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:03.759
So try what he said, and as we do it, man, there's just this openness and this freedom.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.759
But I got I got trapped in this cycle.

00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:14.400
So I lost my virginity early, and then watching porn, girls were just my whole identity.

00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:17.440
And then I started taking pride in something.

00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:25.440
I think the last time to this day that I think I'm 35, that I watched porn, I still remember the night where I was like, I'm done.

00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:27.519
And I turned it off.

00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.039
I put my laptop, we had laptops at that point, and I put it away.

00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:41.279
And so what happened is for like the next, I don't know, five, six years, I took pride in the fact that I was like, Oh, I don't watch porn.

00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:46.000
Like, yeah, but you're on Instagram, like stopping all the time.

00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:52.240
Your memory is I always said I had a bad memory, but for some reason, there my memory was fantastic.

00:33:52.400 --> 00:34:02.799
And so it was like I took pride, so it was like it wasn't just about the act of porn, it's the heart behind what we're doing, and that's what that openness and that vulnerability, it's what Jesus is trying to get in and heal.

00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:04.720
He's like, I'm not just gonna heal the action.

00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:12.480
It's a if your righteousness does not surpass that of the scribes and the Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.679
It's not just about did I do that thing or did I not do that thing?

00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.679
It's like, no, I'm gonna get in there and heal it with what Cody's talking about.

00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.119
It's like those moments are it's like I'm trying to grow a good tree.

00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.480
That's the healing that Christ is trying to give us in it.

00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.440
But if we hide it, it's never gonna happen.

00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:30.239
Amen.

00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:32.079
Prince, yep.

00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:37.360
One of the first things that I say going through sex addiction recovery with people is isolation is the enemy.

00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.480
And everything in you is gonna tell you to hide.

00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:43.199
And you cannot do it if you hope to survive.

00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:45.199
You cannot hide this away.

00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.039
Well, think about think about surgery.

00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.320
Surgery is always done in the light, it's never done in the dark, right?

00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:52.960
Yeah, you want somebody doing surgery in the dark on you?

00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:53.760
I don't.

00:34:54.159 --> 00:35:02.079
And I think the biggest, the biggest lie from the enemy is oh, you got if if he if you keep it in, I've said this myself a lot.

00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:05.519
If if you keep it in the dark, he he can speak to it.

00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:07.599
He can constantly speak to it.

00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:12.400
But if you bring it to the light, that's where freedom comes every time.

00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:13.519
It's the big lie.

00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:20.000
And I think that is the first step with anybody is that's why you you mentioned cards like confess your sins to one another.

00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.480
There's a reason that the word of God tells us that.

00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:29.440
Yeah, because once you do, uh, you have crossed a barrier now, and it's out in the open.

00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:36.400
And now the relief that comes from that on anything, whether it's financial or whatever.

00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:40.960
I saw a guy one time have total financial ruin, and I went to his house and was crying.

00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.320
And he said, Man, I think the yesterday he all came crashing down.

00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.079
His wife found out all the financial issues.

00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:47.760
He said, The devil just got me.

00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:53.360
I said, No, brother, no, no, the Lord got you yesterday because now she knows.

00:35:53.519 --> 00:36:00.079
And and but your illustration of whatever you said about it's us, it's us against whatever it is.

00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.079
That is the beauty of the the walk in Jesus.

00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:07.840
That what a way for took for you guys to frame that.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.199
There's there's that's powerful, that's a powerful potency.

00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.360
Um, it's not me against you, honey.

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:16.639
It's it's us together against whatever the enemy's doing right here.

00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:18.400
What a woman.

00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:19.760
She's a good woman.

00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:28.639
I talk to my daughters all the time about the difference between you know saying she's hot or this or that, and she's a good woman.

00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:32.000
I'm like, what you want is a good woman.

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.840
And we can we can elaborate on what that what that woman is.

00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:38.800
What was the David quote again, uh, Curtis?

00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:39.199
Sorry.

00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:42.000
When I kept silent, my bones wasted away.

00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:45.519
So good.

00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:52.480
We're gonna have to start blocking three to four hours on these type of days because we could go so far.

00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:55.920
Like I wanted to even hit not only the images, but the sound.

00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.000
And when I say sounds, we're gonna get weird.

00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:00.559
I don't mean it like that, I mean it like this.

00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.679
Um, do y'all remember the song Back to the Hotel?

00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.280
No, I don't listen to that crap.

00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:08.400
Oh my goodness, man.

00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:10.400
Y'all need to check out some back to the hotel.

00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:12.719
Not very long, not very long.

00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:14.880
That's the gangster music, bro.

00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:16.559
That's the thug music, yeah.

00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:24.639
And then uh Big Pond over there, he ended up uh telling me about was it Ja Rule?

00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:28.400
Who did you tell me that was it was it was Biggie Small's Jaw Rule.

00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.760
It was uh a group of guys, but that was like one of my go-to songs.

00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.079
That song was horrible.

00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:35.679
What was the name of the song that you said?

00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:38.639