He Grew Up in a Tent — Now He's Teaching Dads How to Stay | Scott Maudsley | Dudes Without Dads

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I leaned in from 0 to 13. And I just, every time I could be present, any conversation I could have, you know, I was a primary one at night, putting them to bed, praying for them, singing with them, you know, just, man, I was over-engaged as much as possible. And now to see the fruit of that, with my son being 19 in first year of college, my daughter being 14 first year of high school, the bond that we have and the openness to the relationship, man, I would trade it for the world. There's no paycheck, you know, there's no influence, no stage. So I would trade now for that intentionality from 0 to 13.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

My life was just spyrolling downhill, depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death by despair. One guy who showed up is just you. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose. You can break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had. Scott, greetings, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Hey Josh Craig, you're with you, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah, um, I am blown away about where your journey, what God has done with you, your expertise. You're gonna add a ton of value to dudes who grew up without a dad, who are trying to figure out what it looks like to be a dad. But before we get into that, I want you to just kind of share a little bit about your story, maybe your childhood and what your relationship with your dad looked like throughout the years.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Yeah, absolutely, man. I love to honor to be here. And I love helping dads, man. So I wouldn't be here if a lot of a lot of men hadn't helped me as a dad. So um yeah, so uh quick uh um story for me. I'm I'm a Michigan kid, grew up southwest part of Michigan. Uh my dad in the early part of my I'm second of four boys. Uh my dad in my early days uh had an had a nice business. We were very connected in the local church. Um, and just I remember um pretty pretty uh easy early childhood. And then we made a move from one part of Michigan to another part of Michigan, and he tried to reestablish his business, and it just never worked, did his best and just couldn't make it happen. And so that was you know, probably I'm seven, eight years old. You know, you hear stories of of kids, and that was one of them that used to run to my bedroom, throw a pillow over my head, trying to get away from my parents fighting in the kitchen. And all those financial issues really um were the presenting issue that that showed up in my parents' marriage and just a lot of unresolved issues, a lot of trauma. Um, the the the end of that financial journey was in the business was is that my dad ended up going bankrupt. My family and I uh together, four boys, my mom and dad, moved into a tent uh in a campground for several weeks, uh homeless, just trying to figure out how to put a roof over our head. So pretty intense, man. From the age of about eight to 18, lived in 14 different physical houses. Uh, my four years of high school, I went to three different high schools, including a move from Michigan on the farm to Miami, Florida to the 305 for my senior year of high school. So, bro, I was I grew up in a little um a white farming community in Michigan. And then we moved not just to Miami, but to Hyalea, Miami Lakes, man, Little Cuba. So I immediately became the minority and uh got to know the Cuban culture and the Cuban people, man. It was awesome. And and God was in all that, but I came home from school one day during all that, and my mom had left actually, taking my two younger brothers with her, left my older brother and I my dad. So I had a single dad actually for about a year and a half. Um, and my but the redemptive side of the story, Josh, is that my parents ended up figuring it out, and uh my mom ended up coming home. And when we lost my dad about three and a half years ago, he he passed away just shy of their 53rd wedding anniversary. So super redemptive. The non-redemptive side was that dad pulled my older brother and I aside and said, Listen, mom's coming home. We're not talking about it, we're moving on. And so um, I did my best, and we'll we'll probably get to this part of my story at some point. Uh, God put uh in in my 30s a really important man in my life that that that caused me to have to circle back and go back into all that trauma and mess. But um, when I think about my relationship with my dad, uh my dad was a man of faith, he he loved us, he was there, he was always present, uh, but he was distant when it came to emotional. Uh, we never really had deep conversations of the heart. Uh, a lot of the spiritual leadership of our home was kind of left up to our local church and the youth pastors. And so um uh present but distant is how I would describe my relationship with my dad. And uh there were some really good parts of it, and there were some really challenging parts of it, uh, you know, even up until his time of passing away. So um that gives you a little bit of my background, a lot of years in ministry. That I mentioned that Miami was was big for me. Uh, as a senior in high school in 1991, uh, I felt a call towards kingdom work, never any specificity to that. You know, I had buddies that were called to preach or called to be student pastors. I never had that, just a general sense that I wanted to invest my life in some kind of kingdom work, and so that's been my journey, man. There's never really been a plan behind it, no like grand strategy for where I've been. Got open doors, you know. I I I tried to walk my best through them. Uh, probably some doors that that I walked out of too quickly because of immaturity, insecurities. Uh, but God's been faithful the whole way, man. So it's uh it's it's been a journey. Um, don't know what questions or thoughts you have around that, but that's a little bit of my story.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Well, we're gonna go into your ministry journey and what God has used because I do consider you a who that we need to listen to to understand how best to be the best dad that we can be. Because that's really our goal as we become fathers, and it's like, oh crap, we've got kids now. What do we do with them? But before I get into that, let me ask you the following question. Yeah, when you say your dad was present but emotionally absent, what is if a if a if a dude is wondering, was my dad emotionally absent, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yeah, um, so here was one of the cool things about my dad. My dad never missed an activity, man. He was every game, like he was present, he was there. Um but when it came to helping us process a mom that walked out on us, right? And even for my older brother and I that left that left us behind, um, dad just never knew how to help. And he was just trying to deal with his own stuff, and and and he had so much, so many of his own issues that it was hard for him, and I don't think he ever fully pulled himself out of his own issues to be able to turn around and to help his sons with the issues and things that had been created in us. And I would say for me, um the one gift that I want to give my kids that my dad was not able to give me is not perfection, but is the the commitment to grow in a way that I will be ahead of them in that process. And so you and I both know our kiddos are gonna end up in counseling one day for something that we did or didn't do, right? Like I'm I'm I'm not a perfect dad. But when something does come up like that, Josh, the gift that I want to give them is to say, Oh man, you are so right. Like, I just missed that, you know. I didn't know how to do that, and I'm sorry, you know, I apologize, hope you'll forgive me and let me keep learning and growing, right? And I think that's the one gift I wish that my dad would have given me is to have grown enough that he could have been ahead of me a bit, and then he could have helped to have lead, he could have helped to lead me through some of the mess in an intentional way, you know. So it's the best way I can kind of reflect on that.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah, that's so good. My kids often say, uh, Dad, when we were little, we couldn't play with Barbies. And I read this book and I was a student pastor, it was by Joshua Harris. I kissed dating. Oh, yeah. So I taught in youth ministry that as like gospel.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

And now my kids are like, Dad, what in I was like, I don't know. Uh it's like it's what the church was telling me we should do. Like, I'm sorry, you know, and why could we watch Narnia but not be able to watch oh, what's the Harry Potter? I'm like, I don't know. Harry Potter is is of the devil, you know, is what I was talking about. And so my kids are going to counsel.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Oh, I love it. I love it, man.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

You've got 30, I hate to say this, but you've got three decades.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Does that seem like a long time to be in ministry?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

You know, it doesn't it doesn't, you know, it's it's uh um yeah, I've been I so I'm 52, I'll be 53 this year, and yeah, I in fact I actually started as a middle school youth pastor as a freshman in college, man. So I've been involved in uh local church or parachurch, a little bit of business, but still ministry related for going on, you know, probably 35 years now, man. It's it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, and they were at some of the most influential churches in our country.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Yeah, Jeff, that's go ahead. If finish your question there, but I got an interesting reflection there for you.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I appreciate you sharing that for all of us. When what are the pivotal moments and experiences you have from all of that ministry experience that kind of moved you to this approach of fatherhood or mentoring?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Yeah, so uh as I reflect back on my journey, I told you there was never any um kind of strategic plan behind it. You know, it was kind of like got open doors and opportunities, and um, but I'll tell you this, I got connected pretty quickly, you know, college around I was at Liberty University, is where I went in the early 90s, and and I ended up working for Dr. Falwell and Jonathan Falwell, and and um uh I got connected real quickly to what I call the Christian celebrity subculture, and it doesn't take long. Uh, you know, over the years, when you're working for Jerry Falwell's and a great leader named Tom Mullins down at Christ Fellowship Church in West Palm Beach, Florida, Rick Warren, Andy Stanley, for an insecure kid that really grew up kind of on his own in many regards, I was a latchkey kid of the 80s. Um, and so I had to figure out a lot of life on my own. You know, for a kid who wonders, you know, do I have what it takes? Um, it didn't take long for me to start feeling like my value would come from position and title and having some kind of a stage, right? And some level of influence, uh, writing a book or speaking at a conference. Uh, and so what happened when when dad said, We're not talking about it, we're moving on, and we didn't have the ability to process that a lot of that trauma and brokenness, all that was just transferred into me, into vocational ministry. And uh, and I thought, man, if I could just get a little bit more of that, right, then that would make me valuable. Um, and all of that changed when we moved to Atlanta in uh 2007. I came on staff at North Point Community Church, and uh God gave me the gift of a boss, and more importantly, a man I referred to as a spiritual father named John. John was the first man in my life, older man, that started to ask the deeper interior life questions. And I'll give you one example. Uh, we were at an off-site uh having a meeting, just a kind of planning meeting for ministry, and we got on a topic of conversation that I got really frustrated about. I mean, I was worked up, and the whole room knew it. And uh, we got to a break, and John said, Hey, come here for a second. He pulled me out of his back deck, we were at his house. He said, Hey man, what was that? I kind of looked at him confused. I was like, What was what? He said, Listen, man, he says, I know that issue is frustrating, and at one level, I understand why you're frustrated. He said, But Scott, your level of frustration was so much bigger than that issue. What's in the gap? And bro, I'd been a licensed, ordained minister for 15 years, right? And honestly, for the first time in my life, someone reflected to me that I had these big gaps in my life, I was completely unaware of. And it was affecting everything. Uh, my ministry, my marriage. Thankfully, my son was just two at the time. My daughter wasn't born yet. Hadn't affected uh my parenting yet, but it was going to. And what I realized was um I couldn't just move on from a lot of that mess, the false beliefs and hidden vows that were planted in me from a young age. I had to go back and and allow God's spirit to do some healing and uh for me a pretty deep level counseling, wise counsel, and uh took about six years. Um, but through that, uh God healed me and brought me to a place where my soul was at rest. And and I could tell you so many more things about that, but that was the seeds of the work I'm doing today with dads. Um, you know, so I'll stop there for a second just to see what thoughts you have, what questions, where you want to go with all that.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that because when we ask as men, what can we do? We're looking at something that we can change about the outside. But your qu your answer to the question, and I just want to bring make it super clear, it's not working on others, it's working on self. That's the greatest learning that you've experienced is that if you want to be a better father, you have to become a better man. Oh, no doubt. And that means you have to take a take a in this actually a segue, we have to take a look at ourselves and make a change, yeah. Which brings me to your role at Man in the mirror.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Um you served as the spirit as the uh program director for spiritual fathers.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Yep, yep, which is an intergenerational uh discipleship uh initiative.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, it's right. Yeah, and and for those who don't know, would you mind just sharing a little bit about what Man in the Mirror does?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah, absolutely. So Man of the Mirror, honestly, bro, for 35 years, Man in the Mirror for me was a book I read in the early 90s, uh, because it was a book that came out in the 80s. A lot of men in the church uh read it. The author was big in the Promise Keeper movement, but I didn't know there was anything that existed beyond that. And so a few years ago, through some work that I'm doing here in the in my in our community in a little local nonprofit, I started to reach dads, I got connected to uh the the leadership of Man in the Mirror uh around this uh idea of intergenerational mentoring. Uh, and so Man in the Mirror has been working for 40 years, has worked with with uh tens of millions of men through resources and and uh different events and stuff, uh almost three million churches. Uh and in and in the pandemic season, uh launched a new initiative called Mirror Labs to begin researching what's going on with men, especially young men. And what they discovered through a partnership with Gallup and and uh um several of the other big research organizations is they discovered that young men are walking away from their faith, especially millennial men by the millions, not hostile, they just don't see the point. And um, I grew up in a in a a church culture that was obsessed with the question, is it true? Right. And we spend a lot of time trying to prove what we believe is true. And books like Josh McDowell evidence it demands a verdict, and least trouble case for Christ. And what we've discovered about the younger generations is that that question is that doesn't is doesn't fall very high on their list. Um, it doesn't matter. Is it true or not is not as big a question for young men. The biggest question they have is does it work? Does it make any difference in my day-to-day life? And whether or not it's true, if I can't figure out how to take this and actually become a better man, better husband, better father, right? Um, better in the workplace, then why would I waste my time? You know, life's too busy, too much going on. You know, it used to be that Sundays and Wednesday nights were nights where we didn't have athletics now, right? And now every day is like our kids are involved in all these extracurricular activities. And so um we we realized that men were wrestling with faith. At the same time, they were also saying, Hey, I would I'd love to have an older guy just that would be available to me to ask some questions, to help me think through being a dad, being a uh you know, husband, um, help me think through some of the challenges I'm experiencing when it comes to work life. And unfortunately, Josh, there's just not a lot of that happening. Um, even within the four walls of our local churches, there's not a lot of intergenerational mentoring and connection happening. And we talk all day about why that is and what we're seeing, but the heart of it is to say we got to get generations back in rooms together. Because a lot of guys didn't have a dad, right? I mean, that's a bit of your story and the passion behind the work that you're doing is if you didn't have a dad, then how are you move forward, right? Like who are you learning from? And how are you gonna how are you gonna heal from some of that? And what do you need to be aware of? And even those of us who had dads, right? But we had some challenges and some trauma, right? Like, where are we going? And uh that's really what the work of Man in the Mirror is about is how do we connect intergenerational mentoring and make sure that a younger generation of men have somebody in their life that can help lead and guide them, man. So that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story. And if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you, I want you to stop and hit subscribe. I am on mission to help men become the dads they never had. Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions, identity issues, and really what we need is we need a model. We need to see people that have broken the patterns and come alongside of them. I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey. Every Thursday, we're gonna release a new episode. Each episode is gonna help you and others become the dads they never had. Hit subscribe and share with a friend. Now let's get back to the story. I appreciate you you sharing that because if you don't even know these uh these uh ministries exist, you don't really know how to solve a problem unless that you're aware of a solution that addresses those problems that you have to begin with. Now, you have a book called A Dad's Bible Journey. Yep. Yeah, do you remember writing that book?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

I do vividly. That was a lot of work, man. It took four or five years of thinking and praying and processing to finally kind of lock that down and get it in. But bro, so I I I'll say this there's nothing that has come easier to me. Not that it's easy, but for me, nothing's came easier to me than being a dad. Like I just love being a dad. And um, I was blessed to have some older men in my life who were great dads who taught me how to be a great dad. And I also was blessed to be uh for me in ministry at places that did not ask for me to sacrifice my family on the altar of ministry, and so I got to be present. Uh, another reflection from a conversation I had with John. Silas was maybe four, and Sadie was, I think, about to be born. My kids about four and a half years difference. Uh, and I asked John, I said, John, what do you wish? And he was at the time about 20 years my elder, empty nester. I said, John, what do you wish you'd have known at my age as a dad that you know now? And he said, Scott, he said, I wish someone would have told me that I really only had their full attention until they were 13. He said, I thought they're gonna be in my home until they're at least 18, and I'll have influence the whole time. He said, What I didn't realize was at about the age of 13 is when other voices start to become more influential. Friends and coaches and social media, right? He said, if someone would have told me that, I would have parented very differently from zero to 13 than I did. And bro, the gift for me is that my kids were young. And so, because of the wisdom someone gave me, I leaned in from zero to 13. Uh, and I just every time I could be present, any conversation I could have, uh, you know, I was a primary one at night, putting them to bed, praying for them, singing with them, you know, just uh and Natalie had other great ways she connected, right, as a mom. But man, I was over-engaged as much as possible. Uh, and uh now to see the fruit of that, with my son being 19, his first year at college, my daughter being 14 first year of high school, the the the bond that we have and the openness and the relationship, man, I wouldn't trade it for the world. There's no paycheck, you know, there's no influence, no stage that I would trade now for that intentionality from zero to 13.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

That statement is often made is that you can't pay me enough to move me away from loving, influencing, training up my children. But if you really look into our calendars, into our schedules, and to our ambitions, it would almost appear that most dudes are actually sacrificing that opportunity for things that they wouldn't if they could identify what they were doing. Bible journey. If someone were to pick that up, what would they learn from it and how would it help their help?

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah, so I'm a terrible marketer. Maybe you asked me about my book, and I told you a bunch of stories and say anything about the book. Yeah, so I'll tell you, man, like uh I've had a book in the back of my head for several years. And if you've ever attempted to write something like that, just getting it out of your head onto paper and then structuring it can be a real challenge. But as I as I entered this year, or last year, actually, sorry, in 2024, uh, I was just really prayerful and I thought, you know, there's there's not been any book in my life that's had a bigger impact on me as a dad than the Bible, you know, and obviously the principles and and following the life of Jesus and in that training and teaching, but I had never done a study on the dads of the Bible. Like, and I just thought, you know, I wonder, I wonder what it looks like as a dad in the Bible. And so uh started reading through and I and I just realized that man, there's so many rich stories, not not principles for how to be a better dad, but actual stories of dads in the Bible. And so, you know, I wrote the first of a of a series of nine books, uh, and this one's covering uh Genesis to Deuteronomy, so the Torah, first five books of the Bible, and I've just captured uh the story, every story of a dad's direct impact on his kids' lives, for good or for bad, and there's a lot of both. Uh, and then I written a dad reflection that just says, Hey, not a theological primer or commentary, just my observation on what we can learn from that story, and then two questions we can ask ourselves about how to become a better dad. Well, that's as an individual, we've got some small groups that are using them as dads, right? To make it really super simple. And I'm gonna do that for every section of the Bible. So I'm working on the history books now. Um, but you know what I well, Josh, what I know is the average guy reads one book a year, and a lot of men are really intimidated by the Bible, and so what I love about this book is that it's the average chapter takes about two minutes to read, right? Not long. Uh, and you're engaging in the Bible, but it's through the lens of being a dad, and it's a story that's really practical for us. And and the cool thing about it is that there's dads that have young kids, there's dads that have old kids, there's stories about father-in-laws, right? I mean, it really covers the gamut of any age and stage of being a father, and so you know, a dad's Bible journey um has was my own journey of just learning, and then hopefully we can help a lot of other dads just learn a little bit more from from the dads in scripture about how to be a better dad.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Now, you mentioned you wanted to give away a thousand of those books today on the show.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I didn't see that in the show notes, Josh. But you know, let's let's let's talk about I'd love to sell a thousand of them. How about how about that? No, no, but actually, if you want to do something, man, do a little social media or something, man. Let's give away a couple for sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yeah, I would love to do that, and I personally want to check it out. Is this something that you would do before you lay your kids down at night, or would this be like a date day activity or a meal or something like that?

SPEAKER_02 24:59

You know, it's it's a good question. The book is really, I mean, it deals with some hard subjects, right? So I I'm not sure how depending on the age of my kiddos, some of the stories. Actually, interesting. Probably the worst dad I went through in that first five books was Lot in the Bible and what he did to his daughters. It was so tragic. I didn't even include the story uh in the it's the only the only one that doesn't have the whole story actually written in the book. Because I said, Hey, it's so disgusting that I didn't want to put it in here. If you're if you want to go read it, read it. But the truth about that story is that for any of us as dads, when we begin to put our needs before anything else in our life, the truth is that it will cause tragedy for our kids. It's just that's the nature of that level of selfishness, and that's all in us, you're right. It's dads. We all have that level. If we don't, if we're not careful, we're not aware of it. It's really easy for us to be a predator and not a protector, even with our kids.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

So yeah, that's that is definitely a culture drift um of Sodom and Gomorrah and how we can often drift into what we think is norm, but norm can be so far away from actually what godliness and the kingdom actually looks like. So let me ask you a question about something you mentioned in is about your leather working and yes, and contemplative practices. Yeah, would you mind sharing a little about how these you know activities have influenced your relationship with your kids and maybe even some of your leadership style?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah, so I'm I'm probably just really easily distractable, Josh. I do a lot of different things. Oh, look, a squirrel, right? That joke. Um, so uh probably goodness, probably 15 years ago or so now. Um, I was looking for a hobby, just something that would be fun. And I grew up my first jobs were detasseling corn and baling hay. And man, I grew up working with my hands and hard work, and I thought I'd like to maybe make something with my hands that would be meaningful. So a good friend of mine has started a leather company, and I bought a few of his products. I started thinking, you know, that would be interesting. I mean, I I love leather goods, and and uh maybe I'll maybe I'll try just making some things and see how that works. Plus, it's not a hobby that would take me away from home, right? I could go to the basement at night in a little workshop and do something and still be close to my family. And so I just started, bought a bowl, a roll of leather, just started, you know, making some some really rudimentary products and you know, just some having some fun with it. Um, and then God opened the door for a little bit of business to be started with it. And and we were selling some custom journals, uh, you know, across some bookstores and all that type of thing. But what I've loved about it is, man, when you sit down with a piece of leather and help to shape something. I mean, the create the the creativity, the ability to try new things. Um, you know, man, there's been times when I've sat down with it and and I'll look at my watch and be like, how I've been here four hours, like how in the world, just in kind of immersing yourself in something like that. Uh, and then the the fun fruit of my kids, right? Like they know the dad makes things, I've been able to make them journals and have conversations about it. And and I've even done a few little trainings here and there about taking leather work and and and uh you know, kind of equating it to leadership and how we grow and what it looks like. And so, bro, I I love a good story, so uh, you know, I'll turn anything into a story, and that's what I've been able to do with leather a little bit, and now it's kind of back to more of my hobby than anything. You know, it it's uh I'll go out to the garage and just I've got a whole setup out there and just have some fun making things and and uh just enjoying being present and uh having your mind in something where the distraction kind of goes away. So I don't know if it answers your question, but that's some reflections on it.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

No, I I love that idea. And my son and I, we're watching a YouTube channel where this dude is in Alaska and he makes you name it, he makes it, and he goes and lives in the middle of nowhere. And my son, uh, I have a seven-year-old, I have six kids. My seven-year-old this morning, we're watching it, he's watching this guy make a sheath um for an axe, for uh, you know, a knife, and and it's occurring to me, man, my son would absolutely love if we got into something like this. Yeah, is there and I know this is off uh our conversation where's the starting point to learn and to play with something like that? Any suggestions there for me?

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Yeah, so you know, uh so one other reflection for you, and then I'll answer that question. Um it amazes me now. I've been 15 years in, I'll sit down and make a journal, and without even thinking about it, there's about 13 tools that go into the process of making one journal. And um, now I just do it kind of second nature. But when I 15 years ago, I wouldn't even have known where to start, you know. And so uh what what I did 15 years ago is I just said, let's just, you know, let's not overanalyze, we'll just try something. And there's a leather shop here in Atlanta, it's a national uh shop called Tandy. I went down to Tandy and found the cheapest roll leather I could find, right? Because I didn't want to waste too much money, and um I just started cutting at it. I took my I took a uh uh uh one of my buddies, uh it was a case for a computer, took it apart, and I started just kind of seeing, okay, what does this look like and how do you do this? And okay, what tool do you use for that? So I'd go Google it, right? And and I put together just a couple tools to help me make that one thing. And through making that one thing by having a guide, uh you know, I started to figure out wow, you know what? I I could do this, and then and then feeling the freedom because I got a lot more leather just to go, well, let's try cutting this and trying this, right? And just and just giving myself permission to experiment. And if it was fun and cool, could use it, if not, throw it away, right? Um uh, and so I think the biggest thing for me was getting enough to get started, and then you kind of figure it out along the way, you know. And the good news about the day is we have so many places, right? You said you're on with on YouTube with your son, there's so many places for you to go and learn, you know, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

I love the way that your mind works, it doesn't see a problem and get stuck, it pursues the problem until it gets fixed, and that's a little bit of uh a Jedi mind trick of saying, Hey, there's no problem that's unsolvable. And so I love the way that you you tackled that. I've got uh three or four more questions, but I really need to probably save them for an another uh part two because you've got an event coming up in March, and I really want you to take some time um to share on what is taking place here in March.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Yeah, so uh Josh, we're launching something called the National Joe of the Bro Day, which is kind of fun, kind of clever. Um, but let me let me go back to why we're doing this. One of the things we're discovering is we work with older men across the country, um, and you know, I I put myself in that as a Gen Xer and uh uh boomers, especially, is that most men never had an older guy in their life that invested in them intentionally at all. If any place maybe work or the marketplace, but certainly not from a spiritual perspective. And so when we talk about this idea of spiritual fathers, what we're discovering with older men is it's like, man, I love the idea of maybe helping to mentor a guy, but ooh, wait a second, like spiritual father. I never had one of those, and I know I'm not that, right? There's like a tension around the intensity of that label, and um so what we've discovered is older men lack some level of spiritual confidence, and we there's uh we could talk a long time about that, uh, and maybe we'll do that on our second uh go-around together. Um, but what we're trying to do is we're trying to set the bar low enough to say, hey, just take a first step, right? Like uh if if if someone ever became a spiritual father, they never started as that, they started as a spiritual friend. And sometimes we're hesitant to be authentic about the mistakes we've made, the challenges that we've faced, or even the things that we presently struggle with. But man, what a gift for a younger guy to be able to hear from us. Hey, here's the places where I blew it, you know, here's the places where I wish I had done something a little different. Here's the things I still kind of struggle with. That's the thing they want to know more than anything else. And so Joe with the bro all came about because we thought, hey, how do we make this simple enough? How do we create something just kind of clever and fun and create a simple framework for a deeper conversation? So Joe with the Bro, you can go to Joe with the Bro.com. You can read down through what we're doing. But essentially it's saying, hey, just sign up here, uh, name, email, right? And and uh zip code, we want to certainly know where guys are and and cell phone if you're open to that. And we'll send you a downloadable conversation card with three questions. Real super simple. First question, can you tell me a little more about your story? Right? Because that's the most important place to start, right? We want to make it personal. Tell us about your story. The second one is if you're if you're having a cup of coffee with a guy and you're you know he's a Christian, hey, what's God doing in your life right now? Right? Like just love to know what God's up to. If he if someone's not a Christian or you're unsure, hey, did you grow up around a faith tradition? And how does that still impact you today? Right. And then the third question is, how can I be of help to you? Um, and it's simple enough, but there's enough framework it'll create a really interesting conversation. And who knows what how what can I do to help you might turn into, you know, it might be another cup of coffee or might be a connection that you make because he's wondering about something, right? Or needing something. And so we just wanted to create a one simple step to get guys started and then see what God might do with that simple cup of coffee.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, I love it. Uh, I think the stats is one out of every three men actually don't have a friend.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Well, now I think most recently, yes, I think uh, but I think I was reading something the other day that said only one in ten men now say that they have a uh at least one kind of deep level of friendship with a guy.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

So if I'm correct on that, yeah, I I wouldn't be surprised if you were. It almost seems like we we become silos as we get older, and then we talk about our culture and sports and so forth. And so, all right, thank you for sharing that. Um, I'm gonna give you final words, anything that you would like to say to a father, any directions with books or resources that you want to point guys to. I'm gonna surrender the last few minutes to you.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Well, I appreciate that, man.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Um Do you have an incredible story of overcoming the home that you were raised in? Or maybe the father wounds that were placed inside your life? If so, I want to share it with other dudes without dads. Simply go to dudeswithout dadspodcast.com and apply to be a guest on the show. The reason it's important to share your story is because when you share what God has done for you, it helps other men believe that God can do it for them, and he can. To share your story, head over to Dudes Without Dads Podcast today.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

Yeah, so a couple thoughts uh from my own life. Um I I had a uh I had a guy get a hold of me a few weeks ago and he said, Hey, uh he runs a on uh a nonprofit in the community helping dads, and he heard about the book, and he said, uh, I'd love for you to come talk. I guess some guys wondering what the Bible has to say about being a better dad. And uh so I started reflecting, I was like, what is kind of the overarching principles I'm learning from studying the dads of the Bible? And obviously there's lots of lessons, right, tied to each one of the stories, but there were four overarching lessons that I that I that I came up with, and I think maybe I'll I'll I'll share that and wrap a couple quick thoughts around that. The first reflection on as I'm looking at dads in the Bible is it's not about perfection. You know, we're we're we are thinking hard on ourselves, man, as men and as dads. Like, you know, it's just we're beating ourselves up all the time. And one of the things I love about seeing dads in scripture is that man, it is certainly not about perfection, and there's no perfect formula for being a dad, right? And so it's not about perfection, but number two, it is about reflection. So our mistakes and challenges as dads don't define us, but bro, they better inform us, right? They can be great teachers, and so I would just say, I you know, I've often told my kids I'm only here today because I was too stubborn to give up. You know, it's like I'm just not gonna quit. Don't quit as dads, man. Keep learning, keep growing. If you make a mistake, own it, right? Learn from it, but but but but build up the courage to move on from it, you know, and and your kids won't remember the mistakes as much as they'll remember the apologies, and they'll remember that you're you keep getting better as a dad, right? And so it has to be about reflection. Uh, the third, the the third thing I've learned in kind of looking at dads and scriptures so far is that if you want to be successful as a dad, then you have to be intentional in setting the right direction. No dad starts off that first day driving that little first one in the little car seat home from the hospital, starts off saying, Man, I'm gonna be a crappy dad. But a lot of dads end up there, right? Because we don't get clear about who do we want to be and what kind of a dad do we want to be, and what's that gonna take, right? For me to be that better dad. And then the last one uh is uh is that we we have to make the right connections, you know. Certainly for me, walking with Jesus and following him daily and my time in my prayer room and all that's super important, and then connecting with people who know more than I do, you know, who have seen things I haven't seen, who are ahead of me in the process. I've had a lot of mentors in my life. Some of those were one conversation, some of those were intentionally over years. I've had a lot of mentors in my life because I pursued them. Uh, and and and uh um so you know, I would say those four things would kind of leave us with guys don't have to be perfect, you know, but but you do have to be intentional, you gotta learn from what's you know, your mistakes. Um, you you gotta be focused on where you want to go and then having a plan. And then you got to be connecting with right people and and learning from the right people. Uh, and if we'll do that, man, I promise you, our kids will have a gift, uh uh, you know, of a relationship with their dad that that uh you know that isn't perfect, but is it a pretty good place?

SPEAKER_00 40:00

So what's the name of the book that you're referring to?

SPEAKER_02 40:03

That that's that's my book, the a dad's Bible journey.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

So good. And so that's also included in in it. You give some frameworks.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Well, I'd say that that's actually that's not a framework in the book. That was a guy saying, Hey, what did you learn looking at the dads in the Bible? And that was just some recent reflections of going, okay, those are the four things I've learned from looking at all those 24 dads in that first five books of the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yeah, I I would visit the homes of new dads when they had babies when I was in ministry, and I also worked with students, and so I would go to their house, I would see the dad holding the baby, but I knew within a short amount of time, once they become teenagers, there's no relationship there. You know, student pastors get to see it all.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

And my walk away from it was basically somewhere along the lines, dad didn't learn to die. And if anybody were to say, hey Josh, what do you think you have to do to be a good father? I'm like, dude, you gotta learn to die. And the more kids you get, the more death is required because I had to give up video games or the amount of video games, like it's just every single child requires a death of more things inside of our lives.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yep. Isn't that maturity, Josh? I mean, to me, maturity is um is moving from what can I get from life to what can I give, right? And the and the more you're asking, what can I give and how can I serve, the more mature you are, the more you're growing, you know. So I love that reflection.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah, it really goes to Galatians 2 20, and it says, For I am dead, it is no longer I who lives, but Christ that lives within me in the life I now live. I live by faith in the Son of God who died for me. So we ultimately just gotta die. All right, I'm gonna have to ask one bonus question because when you're chatting, I feel like the Lord um brought a question to my head. Would you mind speaking to dudes that married a woman with child with children and they are emotionally disconnected from her kids? Yeah, what advice do you give to them to get emotionally connected to kids that aren't their kids but they marry?

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. And obviously, I don't have the personal experience around that from my own story, but I will tell you, I have I have uh pastored and mentored many a men in that position. And uh here's a couple things I would say I've learned, and through that learning I've been able to pass on to others. I think the first one is is just the humility of recognizing that you're not their dad. Um, and the emotional, the emotional process it is for them, for them in trying to relate to you, right? Because you've become something for their mom that is hard for them to figure out. And so I think the first thing is talking about uh trying to take versus give, the gift you can give them is the space to be able to process that. And then I'll say the second thing that I that I've that I have learned, and as I've as I've mentored a lot of guys going through this, is just do your best to keep pursuing, you know, like don't expect that you're gonna get something um big or you know, some big breakthrough from them, especially early on, but don't give up on pursuing, right? Be there. Um when they get frustrated, when they blow up, be patient, be gentle, uh long-suffering, as as scripture says, because the long-term gift you will give them is a man that cares about them and they will know that, but it will take them a lot longer to appreciate that about you than probably you would like, uh, or or um uh uh than you would hope. But stick with it. The guys that stick with it, I've watched the fruit develop. Uh the guys that try hard for a little while and kind of give up or go into a poor me mode, um, they short circuit the opportunity they have to influence those kids. And uh they need you because you are the father figure, the man, the male figure, right, that's with them day to day. So that would be my thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Hey, I want to thank you for sharing. Thank you for being a guest on our show. I would like to come back for round two in the future. Um, but if someone wanted to find out more information about you, your work, uh, is there a website or anywhere that you can direct them?

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Yeah, absolutely. So uh spiritualfathers.com is the direction toward what we're doing with Man in the Mirror. Um, and that'll take you to the Man in the Mirror website, just do what we're doing with Spiritual Fathers. Uh, I actually, the the local nonprofit, we can get in this next time too, uh, that I that I have is called Dads on Tap. We partner with breweries to create nights for dads. Uh, and that's reaching a lot of guys that don't or won't go to church. And there's a whole story behind what God's doing there. Pretty cool thing that he opened doors for dadsontap.com. Uh, you can email me. Um, what's the shortest one? Probably Scott at dadsontap.com is the shortest email, the easiest one to remember. Um uh and then let me think of one other thing. Oh, so a podcast. We have a spiritual father's podcast. You can find that on Apple uh or Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Go hear more about the conversations we're having, about the impact of older guys on younger guys. Um, so those would be a few of the ways that guys could reach out to me. And then social media, uh Scott Maudsley at Scott Maudsley is uh my Instagram, and uh love to connect with anybody that uh that that would like to connect.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, so good. Appreciate all the value you're giving. You know, most dudes are willing to spend money on making money or getting a coach in different areas, whether it's athletic performance or whether it's um a mastermind of some sort, but nobody is investing like they need to be in being a better man, a better father, a better husband. And I appreciate you and all the work that you're doing. And so thank you for being a guest, and we look forward and having you here in the future.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

I look forward to being back. Thanks, Josh. I appreciate it. Yep, thanks, Scott. Forgiveness is more for you than them.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

I had inner peace for the first time in my life. It's just Jesus. Just Jesus.