Is This Where I Come to Get a Dad?" — Ron Hauenstein on the Orphan Spirit, Broken Homes & the 24/7 Dad Cure | Dudes Without Dads

SPEAKER_02 0:00

In 1960, the out-of-wedlock birth rate in America was 5%. So only five babies out of 100 came into the world outside of marriage. Ten years later, the time I graduated high school in 1970, that number had doubled to 10% from 5 to 10%. So 10 babies out of 100. Today that number is over 50%. So over half the children coming into the world are coming into the world outside of marriage. And among women giving birth for the first time, age 25 and younger, that number's around 80%. 8 out of 10. So the value, the importance, the significance of marriage in our culture has just gone like this.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

My life was just spiraling downhill. Depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death by despair. One guy who showed up is just Jesus. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose. You can break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dads they never had. Ron, thank you so much and welcome to the show. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Glad to be here. Honored to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Yeah. Hey, um, would you mind just letting our guests know a little bit about who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Well, I'm Ron Howenstein. I am the founder and executive director of the Spokane Fatherhood Initiative. I also take the garbage out on Wednesdays. So uh I got a lot of impressive titles around here. Uh we incorporated in as a nonprofit in uh July of 2017 and began offering uh evidence-based comprehensive fatherhood classes in September of 2018. Uh these classes run 24 hours, so they're two-hour sessions. We teach them, takes takes six weeks, two nights a week, uh, two hours. So it's 24 hours of instruction. Um just last the last class we graduated, we issued our 700th certificate of completion. So we graduated 700 men through not 700 men, some of these are basic and they've repeated courses, but we've issued 700 certificates of completion. And uh we we praise God for that because um these are men who who come from uh struggling backgrounds, traumatic backgrounds many times, um, a lot of um chaos in their lives, and um they stick with it.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

I think it's I think it's my dad jokes that keep them coming, but yeah, later on today we'll have to find out some of your favorite dad jokes, yeah. Got them, but um, for those that have never heard of that, you call it Spofi, is that right? Correct. And one of your goals is to restore the values of fatherhood. Can you just speak into what is the need? Why is that even a need? And then what are the values of fatherhood?

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Well, let me let me start with some data. Uh, I was in the third grade in 1960. Okay. In 1960, the out-of-wedlock birth rate in America was 5%. So only five babies out of a hundred came into the world outside of marriage. 10 years later, the time I graduated high school in 1970, that number had doubled to 10% from 5 to 10%. So 10 babies out of 100. Today that number is over 50%. So over half the children coming into the world are coming into the world outside of marriage. And among women giving birth for the first time, uh, age 25 and younger, that number is around 80%, eight out of 10. So the value, the importance, the significance of marriage in our culture has just gone like this. Um, so I grew up in a community and at a time, you know, everybody was married, mom and dad lived together, divorce was extremely rare. Everybody had a dad. And so there was family stability and security that came with that. I my childhood was far from perfect, but I always knew where home was. Okay, home was a place where I could go. Well, there's a meal, there's a bed, there's someone to greet me, someone to support me, champion me on a good day, do my laundry. Okay. But children today raised in separated households, divorced households, what do they call home? Well, I have my dad's apartment, my mom's house. Um, you know, they don't have a place that is home to them. And I think, I think that has a significant cost to a person's sense of security in their being. So we are committed at the Spokane Fatherhood Initiative that fathers are the answer. Uh, not just any father, just don't get, you know, just don't assume that just because I have a father is going to work. No, committed, equipped dads who are passionate about meeting their obligation. Again, back to my childhood in the 1960s, if a guy got a girl pregnant in the town I was living in, he married her sometime the next day, okay? Um, as soon as he found out. It was a code of honor among men. And somehow that's been lost in our society. Children are coming in the world, men are walking away from them. I mean, there's we can spend a lot of time on the whole social issue of toxic masculinity, uh, the way that fathers are mocked and ridiculed in our culture. Men are confused about their role. Uh, so we what we end up seeing happening here is is men get recentered, okay. They get encouraged, supported, and and sent back out in the world. We don't allow mom bashing, okay. Um we've never tolerated that. We kind of let guys tiptoe up to the edge of it. Um, but we teach them to respect the mother of their child and recognize that you're not going to make this work on your own. Okay. Parenting is far easier with two people involved than than one. So uh it's it's that important, in fact, biblical role of father that that we emphasize and we think is the solution to nearly all of society's problems.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, a hundred percent question for you. I just want to dig a hole for a second. Um why you know, I know there's probably a lot of different reasons we have a 50% of babies being born without a father in the home. Why?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

It if you were to break down well, I can I can point to um three highly significant social and and uh medical developments that I think are the key, and they happened virtually simultaneously and caused great social disruption. One was no-fault divorce. It used to be very difficult to get a divorce. You had to you had to go to great lengths to prove the other party was unworthy of staying in the marriage. I'm entitled to get out of this, what is supposed to be a lifelong relationship. And and now in the state of Washington, you can get divorced in 90 days for any reason. You just tell the court, I don't want to be married anymore, incompatible, whatever. Uh, as opposed, and so um relationships have become contractual instead of covenantal. A covenant is an eternal promise. But now people say you're not living up to my expectations. You didn't take the garbage out on Tuesday, you don't pick up your dirty socks, I'm out. Okay, whatever, whatever it is. Secondly, the birth control pill came along about the same time before no fault divorce. And thirdly, there was a women's movement, okay. And I I have nothing against anybody seeking a higher calling in life that I'm not uh that I have other things I'm capable of doing besides laundry and cooking and cleaning. Um, and and so, yes, it was, I think, very valuable to encourage women um to enter the workforce if they so desired. But if dad is working and mom is working, there's less energy and time to raise kids. And and those things seem to have introduced more stress and not less stress. Um, and so and it's a very difficult thing to talk about. People think that if we are pro-father or anti-mother, that's not the case at all. And any man who thinks that women are the weaker sex should just try pulling the blankets over to his side of the bed tonight and see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

That's so true. Let me ask you a question about what you just uncovered. Um, no pun intended. And your work. What have you identified as the most significant challenges faced by families that are fatherless?

SPEAKER_02 9:15

You know, I think the key to relationship health is individuals need to get healed first. Um, relationships get healed when individuals get healed. And that is the number one relationship problem. You go online and say, what's the biggest problem in marriage or relationships? And uh there'd be all these studies that say it's generally these two things are on every list finances and communications or why. But the real answer is relationships have difficulty and fall apart because of wounding that one party or both parties bring into the relationship. People don't get healed before they enter into this demanding commitment. And so if you're going to be a better father, you got to figure out what's wrong with what's what needs to change and be healed and improved inside of you. Why do I get angry? Not just come along with some behavior management tools, but but enter into a process of genuine healing. Um, anger is a result of two things in me being being troubled. One is my sense of security, one is my sense of significance. If my security is threatened, then I'm I respond in fear, and so I cover up that fear by being angry and controlling the situation. If my significance is challenged, my response is shame. And I respond the same way. I don't want people to see shame. So so people are anger-driven or often very controlling individuals. So that that would be my my first broad response to that is find a program, find a process, find an individual, somebody to help you understand the things that that need to be worked on in you, internal healing, and then you'll be a better person and a better father.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

So are there more wounds today in our society than there were in 1960?

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

What are those?

SPEAKER_02 11:11

And well, the number one wound is is abandonment and rejection because of the out-of-wedlock birth rate. If the man who's supposed to love me the most chose to leave, my father, what does that say about me? I have no value, I have no significance, I have no worth. Well, you know, I think I think I know how to numb that pain. I'll find some drugs, I'll find a relationship. Girls, especially are susceptible to this. I'll any, you know, I'll keep searching for the love that my father never provided for me. Um, in biblical terms, it's an orphan spirit. Okay, an incredibly damaging and powerful lie that the enemy wants us to believe, that we are unworthy, um, and that our our happiness lies in other people. Uh, and we just need to keep looking for that. Or our or um I'm you know, you you respond to unworthiness by by either becoming a workaholic, I'll prove you know that I am worthy and sacrifice a lot of other things, or you do the opposite, say, you know, I'll live up to that title being unworthy, I'll be a deadbeat, I won't work, I won't become productive, I won't get educated, I'll I'll be a drugie out on the streets. And so um that orphan spirit is is uh probably I think far more prevalent because the nuclear family isn't intact any longer like it used to be.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

You might have an orphan spirit if you fill in the blank. How would I know if I have an orphan spirit or not? What are the indicators?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Um I'm uh my relationships are very shallow. Okay, I don't trust people. Um I uh I oftentimes act unconsciously, I react and and then I wonder later why did I react that way? So um usually very little control over anger, you know. I can respond um in anger. I I lack commitment, okay. I don't have a goal in life, a purpose. I seek a lot of self-satisfaction. I'm me-centered and not other-centered. Those would all be characteristics because if you're if you're an orphan, you got to take care of yourself, right? I I have to be certain that I'm protected, I'm provided for the opposite of the Christian message, the opposite of marriage. Marriage relies on people being other-centered, sacrificial.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

That's good. So well, talk to me about how you restore that inside of the value of fatherhood with Spofi.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Well, we we teach men that they have worth and they have rights, and we're not a father advocacy organization, but we have um a preponderance of our dads are non-custodial, they don't live with their kids. So, and and many are involved in court battles. Um, they're uh many have no contact orders or they're working to improve their time, um, parenting time with their kids through modifying a parenting plan. Uh, they're defending themselves in in trial. So what happens is men oftentimes arrive here defeated and and discouraged. And one of the first lessons uh we have them go through is to reflect on their past, their own father and their own childhood, and and try to understand how much that influences the kind of person they are today. And so uh it's largely uh through the conversation that happens, men recognizing I'm not in this alone, other men are going through the same situation, and the fellowship that comes out of our classes boosts morale uh and positivity in men. So we we tell them they're worthy of support for one thing, they have a right, and and then we begin to work on this process of healing, we don't call it healing per se, we you know the personal growth and development. Uh we use secular materials to do that, but they have a biblical basis. And um, when a man begins to understand uh how his behavior is rooted in uh his past, and then then it can begin to change and change for the better.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

So I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story. And if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you, I want you to stop and hit subscribe. I am on mission to help men become the dads they never had. Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions, identity issues, and really what we need is we need a model. We need to see people that have broken the patterns and come alongside of them. I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey. Every Thursday, we're gonna release a new episode. Each episode is gonna help you and others become the dads they never had. Hit subscribe and share with a friend. Now let's get back to the story. You have a uh an elaborate 24-7 dad program. Can you speak to it a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, 24-7 dad was developed by the National Fatherhood Initiative uh 25 years ago, I think now. And uh it's used by hundreds of organizations across the country. It's what's called evidence-based. So there's social science research that says that dads who take these classes become better dads. They're more committed to their children, to their relationships, to their marriage, less likely to commit child abuse and neglect, um, less likely to engage in what's called antisocial behavior. There's more pro-social behavior. They quit drugging and running and you know, stay out of jail. Okay. So the courses, as I mentioned earlier, 12 classes, two hours each. So it's 24 hours of instruction. There's a basic and an advanced. So men who want to complete the basic class can go through an advanced class and get 48 hours of instruction. And more than half of our guys um do that. So the first four lessons out of the 12 all look inward. They do that kind of analysis I mentioned earlier. What was my childhood like? What is the role of a father? How do I see myself as a father? How do I see myself as a man? And how do I deal with my emotions? The remaining eight lessons then build on those those first four by adding tools and techniques for your fatherhood kit. Um one of the one of the most um rewarding things is guys come in to class and we ask, did anybody have a fatherhood moment or a fathering experience? And guys want to share. Yeah, I I took this lesson from last week's class, and and here's the conversation I have with my kids or um my ex-wife.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

So yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. I I'd love for you at the end of the the show to share anybody that might be interested in finding out more information about that class to share how they can get those resources.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

But I believe Well, we do we do these classes on Zoom, they're available any, frankly, anywhere in the world. We had um one guy zoom in from Brazil. He had a child here in Spokane, a child custody case, but his work took him to Brazil. He he's from Brazil, he's Brazilian. And uh I if if people want to, well, I don't know when you're gonna air this, but uh, spofi.org, sp-o-fi.org, and you'll see our calendar of upcoming classes. We do these classes six times a year.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

I I can imagine you know you having a front row C of seeing lives transformed is pretty rewarding. Would you mind share sharing with our listeners one or two stories of those who um of those success stories?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Sure. Um one man named James, and this isn't confidential, it's all over our website. Uh his story's been told in the newspaper here, was separated from his kids for seven years. Um, he was, I believe, in jail when um a parenting plan was proposed in court by his the mother of his children, four kids, same, you know, same mother for all of them. And he he didn't know about the hearing or or was in jail at the time, wasn't unable to represent himself. And so there was a default judgment uh against him. It was a very restrictive parenting plan. He had a bunch of hoops to to go through. He gave up, he spent uh three, four years, maybe even five years, um, uncommitted. And then God got a hold of him and and changed his heart. And it took about two years to go through all of those steps. But after seven years of separation from his children, he was successfully reunited with them. Uh, has them every other weekend now, and just about any time in between. He can attend their school events, he can take them out for special events, birthdays, and uh overnights. It's just it's just a huge, huge thing. And you know, for all of these dads that we work with, um, nobody forced them to do this. I think that's a really important message that these men want to be better dads, they want to be involved in the lives of their kids. So James's uh story you know stands out. Another example, one dad is in court in a divorce trial, you know, holds up his certificate showing he completed uh a fatherhood class, and his wife says, Oh, you took a class, big deal. He says, You know what? Our four-year-old daughter says to me now. She says, Daddy, you don't get mad at us anymore, you don't yell at us like you used to. And he told me that he made that decision at the end of the second class. He'd been in our classrooms just four hours, and the atmosphere that God creates there is a reflection about his own childhood, his own father, the way he parented, listening to the dads. He made an internal choice. Something inside of him clicked and said, I've got to stop yelling at my kids. We never teach that. Never happen. We don't say don't yell at your kids. The beauty of these classes is men come to these conclusions and decisions to change their behavior on their own. As opposed to something external being forced on them. But but probably the most powerful moment that I've had came in, I think, 2019. We had a booth at a community event, a neighborhood fair, and it's a warm Saturday night in August, and I'm the only guy in the booth. And three teenagers come walking up, boy, girl, boy. Turns out they're all 15. And they don't ask any probing questions like, what do you do here? or what's this about? The first question came from a girl. And the first word she said to me, Is this where I come to get a dad? And before I could say anything, she said, What do I have to do to get a dad? You know, like, is there a form I can fill out or something? And then she said, Will you be my dad? I I before I can spawn any of those questions, she fired them off. One, two, three. Think about that. Is this where I come to get it? She's telling me a stranger her the deepest pain in her life. Looking for him. 100%. There's that orphan spirit, right? I said, What's going on with your dad? Oh, he's a druggie, he's got seven kids. I don't mean anything to him. Can you imagine living that way? Knowing that my father has no respect, no regard, no concern for me. Yeah, that I mean, that kind of pain just rips you apart. And so I offered to pray for her, and she said, okay. And I prayed that she would come to see herself as who God created her to be: beautiful, special, one of a kind, created for a purpose, but also that she would come to know God's love for her as his as her heavenly father, father, role that God wants to play in her life. I said amen.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Super powerful stories. It's hard to know how to recover stories like that because all you can think of is how you can be part of the solution.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Yeah. There was a there was a mom at at church the other day telling giving her testimony, and she's got four kids never married, I think four different fathers. I mean, it was it was a horrible background. And she got an eight-year-old boy who she said thought Father's Day was the day that he could go to a store and get a dad. It's just uh so we got a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

We do have a lot of work to do, and grateful for this podcast. Yeah, and I'm grateful that you've been in a front row seat of yeah. I mean, you're not, you know, I don't know what your hobbies are, but you know, today you're not sitting on a golf course or a boat sailing across the world, you're using your life to make an impact on others before you're no longer on this this planet. So thank you for setting an example for people like me to follow. And so it means a lot that that you give up um yourself to serve others. I've got a couple of questions. These are kind of our rapid fire questions, okay, but they're not as funny, they're kind of serious, and so uh, you know, I should put in the uh what's your favorite dad joke, but this is this is still getting to the heart of some issues. What's the one thing every dad needs to hear, but probably will never from their kids. Do you have an incredible story of overcoming the home that you were raised in, or maybe the father wounds that were placed inside your life? If so, I want to share it with other dudes without dads. Simply go to does without dadspodcast.com and apply to be a guest on the show. The reason it's important to share your story is because when you share what God has done for you, it helps other men believe that God can do it for them, and he can. To share your story, head over to Dues Without Dads Podcast today. What's the one thing every dad needs to hear, but probably will never from their kids?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Well, he needs to hear I love you. I but I think that's that's something the dads certainly could hear. Um men are rarely um complimented for uh the the routine and ordinary things that they do to make things work. Okay. Thanks, thanks for going to work every day and earning a paycheck. Thanks for you know, keeping a roof over my head, thanks for giving me a pillow, you know, and a bed to sleep on. Um, those things are just kind of taken for granted, not just by kids to fathers, but in relationships. So that would that would be my my rapid fire response to that. Do you have kids? Two adult kids, boy and a girl, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

When your life is over and everybody is standing around your casket or wherever, whatever that might be, what do you think what do you want them to say about you?

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Well, first of all, he was a man of God. Uh, and secondly, I'd I'd love to hear them tell stories about this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

So good. Um what's the why behind what you do?

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Well, that's a really boy. Can we start over here? We have another 25 minutes to go. Um, the why is that fatherhood is a specific role ordained by God. Okay, there is no relationship like that of father to child, and so we need to create and establish a culture that honors and recognizes that, that there is an element there of uh unconditional love, sacrificial commitment, um, a covenantal relationship. You know, God didn't come to us as a king so we'd be loyal subjects, he didn't come to us as a military ruler, so we'd be soldiers in his army, he didn't come to us as a dictator demanding our obedience. No, he came as a loving father, and that's what we're trying to help men emulate here is that biblical mu.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

You didn't really share your why.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

My personal why?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, because yeah, there's gotta be an internal driving motivation that drives it.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

So, like, that's the what is there is there a something that has taken place or an something that much of much of my um Christian walk was works mentality that I figured I'd please God by volunteering here and doing this and doing that. Um, but I don't know, it's been 15, 18, 18 years ago, 20 years ago. I was in a program called Bible Study Fellowship, and we were studying the book of Romans, and I I was challenging men in my group. Um, what do we do with sin? The scripture says I'm no longer a slave to sin, I'm a slave to righteousness. When I sin, where does it go? How does it fit? What how do I react to it? And and it's a question of identity, you know. Um we we identify ourselves so much by what we do. Well, if I sin, I must be a sinner. If you know, I work with wood, I'm a carpenter, I work with pipes and metal, I'm a I'm a plumber. But that's not how God sees us. We have an identity in him separate from our behavior. Uh he doesn't like bad behavior, but never, but our identity is separate from from our behavior. That's one of the things I teach dads is separate your children's identity from their behavior. So I came to this conclusion that that even though I sin, I am recognized in God's saint, uh God's eyes as a saint. The Bible says so. 60 times in the New Testament, the word saint is used to describe believers and followers of Christ. And so I'm a saint who sins, okay, not a sinner saved by grace, but a saint saved by grace who sins. And that that changed me. Okay. It developed a sense of gratitude in me for this acknowledgement that I was a wicked and rotten and evil person, not on the outside, you know, I didn't never go to jail, never physically hurt anybody, you know, but nevertheless, did some things that I should not have been forgiven for. But God forgives me. My wife has forgiven me. Okay, my children have forgiven me. And so it's the why is really a sense of gratitude that I've been given this incredible gift, and I want to say thank you. And it's not like I'm gonna earn any rewards, it's you know, the motivation is because I want to, not because I have to, or to you know, see my face. Although I think I told you earlier, my spiritual gift, yes, I'm in love with the sound of my own voice.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

So hey, I've got one more rapid fire question for you. Yeah, then we're gonna ask you one closing question. But what's the single habit that can turn a good dad into a great dad?

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Um, you know, there's a we teach a course called Seven Secrets of Effective Fathers, written by Dr. Ken Canfield, a friend of ours, the founder of the National Center for Fathering. And um, and that's what he did is he took research from interviews with 10,000 dads to develop these seven uh characteristics. And I can't I'm I'm not gonna at the moment be able to come up with them. We could add them to the you know, uh uh link to this after the podcast, but um the one thing that stands out in my mind from that list is commitment, and so um I I think being present uh as often as you possibly can is is the key to your kid's security and significance. Did that answer your question?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yeah, yeah. What is the name of uh is it a godly dad knows his identity in Christ? Was he connected to abundant life at all? Uh basically I'm not I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

The the book is out of print, I'm pretty sure Seven Secrets. He teaches it as an online course. Anybody can enroll for free. Uh it's um fathers.com, I believe, is his website.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

All right, I'm just taking notes and sorting it out as we chat.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Um, how's your community kind of like Spokane is obviously where you're at? How is your community rallied? Have they accepted what you're doing? Is it been challenging? How have they responded to your initiative?

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Uh, we're we're doing great. I I neglected to mention Spokane is the birthplace of Father's Day. If you if you go to Wikipedia, you'll you'll hear that story that um in the early 1900s, uh a woman named Sonora Smart Dodd, her mother died, and and she saw all these recognition for moms, but nothing for dads. And so she encouraged every pastor in Spokane to give a sermon on a Sunday in June in 1910, I believe it was, about fathers. And that's considered the first Father's Day in America. Uh, we have an outstanding reputation everywhere I go. Uh, people say that they love what we're doing here, what's happening here. Uh, we have an excellent reputation with the courts, with the Department of Corrections, with social service agencies, recovery agencies, uh, probation officers, uh, judges, uh, it's elected officials, you know. I mean, we're uh people are grateful that somebody is doing something for dads and for men.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, it's so good. We are, I'm located in Nashville, Tennessee, and the governor of Tennessee is Bill Lee, and they have a program connected to our prison ministry called Men of Valor. And it has been a very successful discipleship framework of helping men learn what they need to learn to break free from the father wounds that they carry ultimately almost feel like you know. Do you know the stats of how many inmates are there? Didn't have father figures growing up.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

I see numbers running from 80 to 90 percent.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

And so and a child, if a child who grows up without a father is 20 times more likely to end up in prison. 20 times. I mean, the answer is just there in in front of all of us. There's so many social ills, and it's not necessarily it's it's the position of fathers, not fathers themselves, it's the loss of that uh connection. The spirit of adoption is the opposite of this of the orphan spirit, and so it's all these kids living under an orphan spirit that's that's uh driving that.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

I do want to offer hope to those that are have grown up without a dad that they're not they don't have to end up in prison. Is there any final words that you would like to speak um into anyone that grew up without a dad? Um that you just want to leave them as we close the show.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Well, there's a hole in you and a hole in your children's hearts that can only be filled by a father or your heavenly father. And so that's what I would encourage you to do is is to find a way to address the pain that's associated in that hole and and find people to help you uh get connected to God to fill that hole. Um and and that's is the satisfaction in in life is knowing that who I am in his eyes. I'm created for a purpose, I'm here for a reason, I've got an assignment, let's go to work.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah, thank you for that. You can't give what you don't the way I say it, and it sounds kind of street, but you can't give what you ain't got, but you do give what you do got until you got God as your heavenly father. It is very challenging to give the people around you what they need and to give yourself what you need, you know. That's love from the Father, you know. Yeah. All right, how can our listeners get in contact with you if they want to do something similar to that what you're doing in their city? How can they find out more information?

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Well, any any organization, any individual can buy the curriculum from the National Fatherhood Initiative. Uh and I I can't remember their website at the moment, but our website at the Spokane Fatherhood Initiative is Spofi, S P O F I.org. And again, you'll see our schedule there, tons of testimonies. Um, we do other things besides fatherhood classes, um, and but those services are all offered locally. But the classes themselves, the 24-7 DAG curriculum, is on offered on Zoom. So anybody wants to take this class and get a taste of it, no charge, $20 refundable deposit. But um come come take a look. But otherwise, uh, you can buy that curriculum from the National Father Initiative and get this thing going in your own town.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Ron, I want to thank you for being here. Thank you for you know pioneering the way. I look at you in many ways as a historian, where you're able to go back and kind of see the progression and the decay of our society and it how it all really does link back to the central father figure inside of our homes.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Yeah, amen.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yeah, and so thank you for being here. I do plan on having you on as a super guest and make it break down some history and help us really understand what we're doing and then how we can solve some of the problems that that we've created.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Look forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Uh until next time, hope you take care and God bless. Forgiveness is more for you than them.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

I had inner peace for the first time in my life. It's just Jesus. Just Jesus.