The Dad Who Was There But Never Present — A Father's Day Story of Reconciliation & Redemption

SPEAKER_05 0:00

And that's when a little voice started speaking to me. Was if you would have died in that car wreck, your life was making an impact on nobody. That thought, it was, I haven't done anything of value in this life.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

My life was just spyrolling downhill. Depression, alcoholism, incarceration, death by despair. One guy who showed up is just Jesus. If you can give a man clarity and community, he can start to live out his purpose. You can break generational curses of alcoholism.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

Welcome to Dudes Without Dads, the show that trains men how to become the dad they never had. Hey, welcome to a special episode of Dudes Without Dads. My name is Joshua Brown, and I have the honor to host or steward this podcast. And today is a special pre-recording, a live event that I've also uh got a friend of mine and now a newly found brother. And uh this is gonna be a Father's Day um release. So this coming up Sunday on the Dudes Without Dads, we're gonna release it and we're gonna ask that you like it, share it with your friends. And this is what we're doing today. I'm gonna be sharing the story of me uh being reconciled to my heavenly father and then to my earthly father who offered to pay for my abortion, not being my life. And then I ended up finding my bigger brother. And we had the same dad, different moms. And then to interview this story, I invited a very special guest. His name's Gary Mauritz. Um, for stewarding this conversation, I don't know if there's a better human being for me to ask to dissect our heads, to dig in, to pull out value for other individuals. So, Gary, thank you so much for being on the Dudes Without Dads podcast and actually interviewing us today and flipping the script.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah, it's a it's a privilege to be with you guys. And I know this is gonna help so many people, uh, especially men that might find themselves in a place where their dad is absent. And hopefully by the end of today, we'll be able to point you to the true Heavenly Father who never leaves or forsakes us. So thanks so much for having me on this show.

SPEAKER_05 2:20

So, Gary, I'm gonna flip it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn off being the interviewer, and then feel free to diagnose or dissect our stories. And then every once in a while, I'll be reading our comment section, um, asking that you like, you share. This is a story that, in my opinion, every family can benefit from at least learning something from reconciliation reconciling with your heavenly father and also your earthly father. But Gary, I'll let you take it from here.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, thanks so much, guys. And um, I probably want to just, you know, as I think about fatherhood in general, you know, there there's I've always found there's there's a difference between the dad who walks out and the dad who stays but checks out. Uh both have different, you know, I guess different consequences of that. And so the the absence, the absent dad and the unintentional doubt both leave the kind of the same hole. And so what I want to do is just try to name that that hole today. And so what we're gonna talk about is the the only hole that God can fill. And so, you know, it's a privilege to sit with both of you and um really start asking you guys some questions. And so what I want to do is just kind of start light, you know, tell us tell us who you are today, the connection, you know, not your title or or what you do for work, because that's a typical guy answer, but the man you've become today. Like, who is that? So give give the audience uh just kind of a snapshot of who you guys are.

SPEAKER_05 3:51

I'm gonna kick this one to William.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Who am I today? Um I am in, I am a man full of gratitude. Um you know, just coming in to know my gifts that were placed with me from through my trials and and my journey and and where Father has placed me. Uh I am an ever-learning disciple of Jesus Christ, uh who is learning how to empower, equip, and enlighten all that I come across and let them know that God is in control of all things and just to uh continually not give up and have hope in uh just like Moses, Moses wandered for 40 years and and and and don't try to put God in no box or or or try to put a timestamp on on his work in your life. That's good, that's good. What about what about you, Josh?

SPEAKER_05 4:56

And I've kind of come up with an identity statement as a result of working through all these issues, and so I have a kind of a a B and a do to that question. And so my B is I'm a son of the Most High.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yeah, period.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

Um, I'm not defined by my past, my present. I'm defined as a son. And so, first and foremost, I am a son of the most high God, period. Now, what I do is I I'm I want to do for others what God has done for me, and that's um call God's people to be ministers into the marketplace. Yeah, that once you get reconciled in a right relationship with your heavenly father, the byproduct is you want to go and help others be reconciled uh to their heavenly father as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

That's so good. That's so good. So with your both your stories, when when did you first realize that the story of yours that I believe God was in it even when we didn't see him? Got God was constantly shaping us. So, when did you first realize this story of yours could really help another another man? Because we're here in dad dudes without dads, it's all about helping other men become men of God. And and so maybe speaking to that piece a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 6:16

I will attempt to answer that. And it's it really is, I'm like 49, I'll be 50 next. Let's go. I'm a grandfather, six kids. And when you ask that question, it's like I'm still trying to to answer that question, to be honest, right? Because ever since I I you know I'll end up sharing my story here in a few minutes, but like ever since I the the story began, I just wanted to go tell everybody what God had done for me. And so what that looked like is my story. But now at 4950, I have more real estate to work with as far as what that looks like. And so I think I'm still learning, and it started right after I come to know that God loves me and he offered his son Jesus Christ as a sacrifice, and and not just that part, but like he loves me, and that love transforms you. So anyway, I'm still working on the answer to that question.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yeah, yeah. William, what about you? When did you first realize a story of yours could help another man?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Uh I went through a really hard season last year, and um, you know, I I got deep in prayer and and and was just asking and uh got the answer I was looking, is where it was like I God revealed the purpose of why he made me and put me in my mother's womb. And and and that's a powerful thing of where I looked back through all the things that we had gone through, um, and how it had formed me to be the vessel that he had brung before, and that was to love others, lead others, equip others, and all do it in the name of the kingdom of heaven. And and and and you know, you can't have a message without a mess, and you can't have a testimony without a test. And and God revealed to me, because I was asking, you know, okay, God, where where do you want me to be? You know, I was questioning a lot of things when you first come out of being where I was for so long, and you're coming into being a new believer and disciple and learning, you're like, okay, am I doing, am I hanging on to this profession out of my strength? Is this where you want me? Is this where you would like to place me? And he revealed to me that he had me exactly where he wanted me to be and had me exactly doing what he was wanting me to do in that moment. And it just kind of clicked, and and ever then I've just really picked up that mantle and been embracing it more and more every day, sir. No, that's so that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

So what I want to do now is kind of pivot to this this concept of like the empty chair, you know, the the absence of a dad in itself, like an absent dad versus an unintentional dad. Um, and really just kind of frame the distinction between the two. So I kind of want to draw a line for the like the listener, like so the absent father is like gone, like there's no phone call, there's no showing up, it's just empty space. And you have the unintentional father who is in the house, maybe he's paying the bills, he sits in his chair, he's watching some games, but a young boy grows up feeling alone because there's no relationship. And so there's different stories, but kind of the same hold. And so, what's what kind of blows me away, and Josh, we we just spoke about this just a little bit before we jumped on, but you know, the the statistic, like the the US Census Bureau, like one one in four children in America, so that equates to like 17.8 million kids live without a biological step or adopted father in the home. And to me, that's just that's just mind blowing. And it and it shouldn't be. Like, and it hurts when I when I read that, it actually makes me want to weep. Um, so I I I want to go back. Um, let's jump in the DeLorean and let's let's kind of go back, let's go backwards. So, so take us back. When did you first understand that your dad was not going to be there?

SPEAKER_05 10:22

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. And for our our our viewers or our listeners, um just for clarity, I'm the dude who our dad offered to pay for my abortion, not being my life. My mom tried to get him to recognize me as his son, and he denied it. And so I'm not the most brightest human being on the planet. So I would say it took years to recognize hey, wait a minute. In fact, I when we talk about the word father wounds, I don't even though think that I recognize the father wound language until I was in my 40s. And so you things don't make sense until you have enough time to recognize that wait a minute, I wasn't given what a young man needs. And this explains why I try to behave the way that I do um inside of life. And so I can share a lot of consequences of growing up without a father now that I look back. Yeah, but I don't know if I realized all the I didn't know that I was seeking a father when I went to NWA, Dr. Dre, Easy E, Goodfellas. I didn't know when I was watching the screen, I was just looking for an identity of something to be. And then when I got saved, yeah, I ended up looking for it inside the pastor and in a role. And I'm like, okay, that that's what a man is supposed to look like. Or I realize, I don't know, they there's an issue there too. And so it wasn't until I'm in my late 30s and 40s that I'm actually starting to put the pieces together that everything uh that I really desire isn't found in a human being, it's found in a a person and in a relationship with Yahweh.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Yeah, it's so good. Well, William, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Well, um, I was both. Dad, dad was in my life the first 12 years, but dad was not there. I I when I first met Joshua, one of the first things I told him was the greatest love that our father shown you was not having you around that man. That was our dad. Wow, very, very, very just mean man. And um, he was a truck driver, massive man, six foot, four, three hundred pounds, you know, the the epitome of masculine. And um he was not there, and my grandparents ended up raising me. I was not a child, I was a trophy that was being passed around between two sets of grandparents, and dad was um there, but he wasn't, and then when my grandparents passed, dad had to take me, and it didn't take six months before he completely threw me out of his house and was like, I'm tired of you messing up my life. I I I have to live my own life, and he sent me to live with my mother's grandmother down in Nashville. Um, so I've experienced both of those, and um yeah, that's one of the first things I revealed to Joshua and and his mother was greatest love father ever showed you was to keep you away from that man, and how he used both of that in his story to ignite the fire in him, where he's out there on the front lines for the kingdom, and also how all that pain cultivated into right where I'm at and where I'm supposed to be this day out there on the front lines, proclaiming the love of our true father in heaven.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Wow, that's so good. You know, and I think about us as men, you know, from the early stages when we're little, like boys, young boys are just crazy, right? They're just crazy. There's always that hero inside of them. They always want to put a cape on or grab a stick and make it a gun or play army or you know, but boys always build a story. And I want to take that because as as as young boys, you you were building a story. So, what what did you tell yourself about why your dad left or why he checked out? Like what was your story that you started to build from a from a young child as you grew up? What was that story? What did it look like?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Um, for me, dad worked all the time. Dad that dad loved his truck. He was a trucker, that's what he done. He had his own truck, owner operator. And so for me, it was dad's just at work, you know. That that's for for for for many years. That's just how it was. Dad would go work, then he'd come in and still not be present, but but but would shower, you know, with uh money, I guess to be honest. He, you know, that that's how he showed his love was was buying gifts and this and that. And uh that's that that's pretty much it. There was never no loves, no hugs. I shared with with with Joshua, there were no ice cream cones and there were no family vacations. Uh, so that that's the best way I can describe my interaction with my dad during those 12 years. Wow. Josh, what about you?

SPEAKER_05 16:01

Yeah, I think what's interesting is if you follow our stories, you know, Williams, um I would say childhood trauma had a greater impact as because he was near but not available, or you get the feeling that he didn't want me. I had no reference point. And so it it's not until like uh now that I'm in my 40s that I realize that when you don't have any dude to hold you, like I held my son, my grandson a couple of weeks ago, yeah. Uh William for the first time, not this one, but my grandson. He hold me too, though, right? So when I held William, I ended up you know getting a photo and looking at it. I'm like, dude, I am so grateful that this dude is gonna have a grandfather and a father. Yeah, this is a big deal. Yeah, the story for me is I never had a dude that held me as a kid from birth to I don't know when. All I was was abused and victimized by dudes who wanted my mom on the streets, and so you know, I'm not getting into the whole story unless you end up asking, but we end up growing up with no protector, no provider, no guider, nobody to preside and show, hey, this is what we're gonna protect you from or you know, provide for you. We had to figure it out on our own, and this is where I'm going with it. Yeah, when you don't have anybody around you, you're forced to figure it all out on your own. Yeah, and so you don't your your your brain for me doesn't have anything to work from, right? It just tries to figure it out inside the environment you're in and making the most of that of any situation. You're just figuring out how to survive. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yes, that's good. So with all of that, right, you have there's lots of memories there. So so what's the what would you say the one or two moments like you're you're still carrying today? Like maybe it's a birthday party, a game, a door that never opened, like like what's the what's the moment you guys are still carrying inside of you because of that type of trauma? You want to go?

SPEAKER_05 18:22

I'll go first and then that because there's no memories, right? You know, there's no memories. All I would, you know, when we, you know, if you're inside of a church world or a mastermind, you might have these father letters that you write to your dad that you wish you knew. And it's like for me, the narrative was always I hate that dude. I hate that dude. I hate that dude. And I want it to be the exact opposite of him. So, whatever that was, I'm gonna be the opposite of that. I wanted to be the model, and so uh the the impact of memories that I have is number one, um, a dude putting a knife to my throat, telling me that if he ever shares anything that he's doing, he's gonna kill me and my mom. And so that's a six-year-old memory. Yeah, my mom was beat up the night before by that dude and put in the hospital. And so when I go to core memories of like, okay, what are all the different events that took place that was a result of not having a dad in my life? Well, that's one of them, and that's one of the most powerful ones. The second one, and I'll just name two, is when a dude named Ron Forsell, first dude I ever heard that said he cared about me and he wished he could adopt me. Um, he was a Nazarene pastor in the middle of Nashville, Tennessee. And you know, he he's the first time I ever saw something that looked like love, and I had no frameworks until that moment of time.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Wow. William, what about you? Mine, I I've shared this with Joshua was uh when my dad was uh when I had to go stay with my dad full-time, around 12 years old, he left me with my stepmother. She man, she would she a lot of abuse there, physical and mental. And one day I had enough. And I got out of the house and went to the neighbors, and uh they went to them and they ended up calling the authorities. Authorities got involved, they came, and then my dad called that night, and and that's when he threw me out. He was like, that's the moment I just shared with you, right? Hey man, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm tired of you messing up my life, and and and and and and you've got two options. You're going back then there was military schools. I'm either going to send you to military school or uh do you want me to reach out to your grandmother and see if she will come get you and you can go live with her? I'm I'm done with all this.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

And then compounded on that, I ended up going to my grandparents, and about six months later, my grandfather succumbed to a a heart attack and he passed away. And then I've got all my cousins around me telling me it's my fault, because the reason he had a heart attack was because of all the stress of the situation of me coming to live with them on the back end of following that incident, and that was that was hard at a 12-year-old to hear, you know. Yeah, not only does your dad not want you, but now you're the reason why granddaddy's dead, because it it it it's your fault. You know, I'm I'm I'm just a kid, man. I'm I'm just trying to figure it out. And in that move, I went from Portland, Tennessee, in a rural location to North Nashville. Very urban area, very, very different. And I I'm just I'm just trying to get my legs under being figured out. And that was a very traumatic time for me, which ended up leading into me using drugs and going down a very bad road. That was the a very, very pivotal point in the journey.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah, that's good. And I want to get I definitely want to get to those those pieces in your story. So when the when the hole stays empty, a young boy begins to fill it fast with something else. And so what I want to do now is just kind of maybe step into the lie about who you are, the the lack, kind of the lack of identity, trying to discover who you are. And and so you know, working with guys, I've always I've always found a father hands a son his name, his worth, his sense of, you know, I belong here. So pull the father out, and the boy goes and looks for answers somewhere else. And usually it's in the wrong room, it's in the wrong direction. And so I want to just press in before we actually jump over to um kind of the the the journey a little bit, but I want to kind of set this up. So growing up, like who told you guys who you were? Like, so if your dad didn't, who filled that seat? Who who was telling you your identity?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Go ahead, Josh.

SPEAKER_05 23:18

You know, as you're talking, I've got a song that I'm that's in my head, and it's like dope man, dope man, yeah, that's me, dope man, dope man. Can I get a G? I don't know if you know this music, but man, it's it's wherever I can pick up a hit of dopamine. Yeah. So at the age of three is when I can first remember seeing pornography. And so when we go back to like what filled the hole, it was dope that I could get some type of hit from, and it started with porn. And so from the early formation, pornography, and I can see the pattern continue in my life, and then the dopamine becomes uh an identity through music. And so once Naughty by Nature and Ghetto Boys and Scarface and all these ghetto rappers, because we were poor broke, we're poor broke, and when you're living off of government, you know, money and housing, the people you you're riding the bus with, that's right, people that you're around aren't the people with money and influence and a healthy home. You're with other dudes who are as jacked up, if not more jacked up than you. And so it'd be music influencers. You know, this is the time that you know cassettes started turning into CDs when it comes become formation.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

And so I'm that traditional white kid that started listening to hip hop music, Snoop, Dr. Dre, The Chronic, and that started filling my idea of identity. And then you look into Ghetto Boys, you look into The Godfather. I'm like, I just want to be popular, smoke weed, sell drugs, and listen to music, and I'm good. That that was what gave me the identity that I was looking for.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Wow. William, what about you? Well, after coming into where I was staying now in North Nashville, uh God placed me because it's all about placement, and I I was placed into a neighborhood of seven other young men that became my friends, and we all suffered the same thing. Dad wasn't there, mom wasn't there, nobody was there. Uh we all kind of clicked up together and became really a family. And and just as Joshua said, that's what we based our identity on was all that in anything to do with rebellion, street, all fueled by that anger and that pain of not having someone hold us and love us and guide us through um very important times of any young man's life. And and uh as we begin to talk more, it it compounded and led into some very bad decisions on down the road, but uh all goes back to that one trigger point, you know, of just being placed in the right situation at the right time for a lot of wrong choices.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. So, so in that journey, like and again, it's it I'm still trying to figure this piece out myself because uh the at least the trigger, but it I always see like every young boy is trying to prove something. Yes. Uh, we're always trying to prove our worth, we're trying to prove our identity.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

I want to thank you for taking time to listen to this story. And if there's something inside of here that is adding value to you, I want you to stop and hit subscribe. I am on mission to help men become the dads they never had. Many of us struggle with father wounds, addictions, identity issues, and really what we need is we need a model. We need to see people that have broken the patterns and come alongside of them. I want to simply invite you to join me on the journey. Every Thursday, we're gonna release a new episode. Each episode is gonna help you and others become the dads they never had. Hit subscribe and share with a friend. Now let's get back to the story.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

And so as you guys are going through your journey and going back, what what were you trying to prove? Like listening to the rap music? Like what were you what were you trying to prove to the people around you? Was it like I mattered, I'm important, I like what what was it?

SPEAKER_05 27:34

That I'm worth loving. Like at the end of the day, when I deduct it all, it's the same thing that every single person is on social media for. It's the same reason that our communities and homes, every single individual on the planet, no matter their identity preferences, they just want to be genuinely loved and valued. And that's the core thread that runs through every single person that is going to hear this podcast or know somebody. When you see someone jacked up, not acting right, they just got one desire, and that's to be loved.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

That's so good. That's so good. What I want to do now is I because we we mentioned the addiction piece. And so, you know, a lot of men when they're when their identity is kind of like lacking, um, they usually walk straight into something that promises to fill the hole, but then we find after they accept it, the hole just gets deeper. And so let's I want to dive into the thing that you guys were reaching for. Some some of it had come out, um, but really the the concept of like addiction and just the downward pull. I mean, that's the biggest thing our you know, the enemy Satan wants to do is he wants to to kill and destroy, and and he just wants to devour us. And because we're creative by God and for God, and if Satan could get rid of God's creation, you know, he he's one. And so addiction is definitely one of those things that kind of rip rip apart our identity. So let's let's kind of walk through some of that. So Josh, you mentioned it a little bit. So so what did you first reach for to make that pain stop?

SPEAKER_05 29:16

The pinnacle of my success inside of trying to fulfill the value and love was to the spot where I had friends, I had somewhat of people coming and uh wanting to hang out. Yeah. And it was, you know, I had two vehicles. I had uh, you know, Jeep Cherokee, Honda Prelude, the Honda Prelude had five percent tint all the way around. And so I had a custom four tens, four meds, tweets, alpine, umps, and eQ, like in my head, I was waking up in the morning smoking blunts, going to pools, you know, and if our listeners don't know what a blunt is, you know, it's a cigar that's the tobacco's been removed, and then you stack it with weed. And so when my friends start saying, Hey, I think Josh is a is a pothead or has a problem, and they're all pot heads, you then realize, yeah, maybe I maybe somewhat and so it all of this led to, hey, I thought all of this was the pinnacle of like what my identity desires, and it never did satisfy and it and it led to a car wreck, which is I can go into that next if you want to, but I'll let William chat on this one.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Uh for me, Gary, it was that same thing. When my grandfather passed, my uh uncle, my mother's brother came back into my life to come back and take, you know, be around with his mother. You know, my my grandmother's there, so he's he's he's been around more, but he's he's full-blown man. He's he's a biker, man. I mean, he's he's and um like Josh was saying, we just want to be loved and we want to be felt loved. And so uh he introduced me to a lot of bad things, man. We don't have to go into depth. Uh I'm 15, 14 years old hanging out with full-grown men and women partying. And then all my other friends that are there, well, they want to partying and and and engage also. So it all becomes a matter of status, and then one thing leads to another, and then another, you know, a joint starts out, then you lead into cocaine, then you lead into uh you're gambling, you're you're you're you're you're just out there doing whatever the next thing is to go back to what you said to get that harder hit of dopamine in your mind, whether it be going into violence against other people, just uh Satan just pulling you closer and closer, man, one little centimeter at a time, just pulling you into hell, and you don't even know the whole time you're willfully walking right into hell. And it's just like it's debate, man. That's and that's one thing I still talk with young men about today is man, just just be careful that bait, man. Don't get baited into that trap.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yeah, it it always Josh. I want you to go to that car wreck story, but it it always just reminds me that every every choice we make in the wrong direction ultimately becomes a chain that we can't break from. You know, a choice becomes a chain, and only Jesus can break that chain. But that's that's how this is how it goes. But Josh, go into that that car wreck story.

SPEAKER_05 32:42

Yeah, so at this time of life, you know, I've got a job at Papa John's and I'm selling weed on the, you know, out of my bisquick box in my refrigerator. And, you know, just in case the cop showed up, they wouldn't find it if it was in the bisquick box in the refrigerator. And so in my head, everything was good. And so I was following a friend of mine, and I want to be clear, all the people that were were friends back then, I would say they're they were genuinely friends. Now, their friendship is defined on certain bases, but there's no difference today between the people we meet, everybody, you know, they value you and what you can do based on how to take it how it impacts and affects them. So when I look back on my story, I had lots of good, decent friends that I still love today. And I'm not saying anything was negative about them. I'm sharing this is what took place in my life.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Amen.

SPEAKER_05 33:42

And so I'm following a friend of mine named Pookie. Pookie had one of the coolest cars you'd ever seen. It was a 3000 TT stealth, Pearl White, and I had a little Honda Prelude dugged out, and he ran a yellow light, I ran a red light, and a Ford Ranger ran the red light. So it'd be like a scene from Duke's the Hazard in the Wild, Wild West. And when that that truck ended up coming through my window, you know, I had a white Tommy Hilfiger shirt. That was back in the day where, you know, Tommy Hilfigger kind of gave you identity of being. And I, you know, I had a little blue collar, and all the way down this the side of it was a green stripe from that green Ford Ranger. Well, and it went through my windshield and my car turned into a banana, two wheels popped off, and it ended up inside of a neighbor's um kind of front yard, and it was right there in Kernersville, North Carolina. And when that happened, I had a decision to make of whether to go get drug tested, uh, go into the hospital, get checked out. And back then, what was in your mind is if you were a pothead, the police are against you. You know, the war against drugs, dare was a thing. So the last thing I'm doing is getting medical attention. So I denied it and I ended up sitting on the side of the road, kind of watching police direct traffic. And that's when a little voice started speaking to me was if you would have died in that car wreck, your life was making an impact on nobody. It was I haven't done anything of value in this life. Like my friends would tip their cups, smoke a blunt in memory of me. What kind of impact is that?

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

And so that I took with me for the next several weeks. And so I've got a Jeep Cherokee, so I'm driving around, I'm thinking, and um that thought is in the back of my head, and I'm still listening to secular music. Uh, Tupac is on, and he's talking about a heaven for a G. And I'm laughing to myself. I'm like, dude, that is some crazy theology inside of it of this uh spot. And I love some Tupac. So, you know, to be when I say I love, he was a gifted musician and listening to his music. But long story short, I knew enough theology because we slept in churches and I I grew up in church because they they accepted me and my mom in. I knew that that man, the way I'm living, I don't know if if there's a a heaven for me. And so I that led me to the last night of what's called a Westland revival service at Coversville Westland Church. You know, I'm thugged out, I've got corduroys with me, I got a little wife, you know, beater type shirt and gold necklace, the one that Henry had and Goodfellas, because you know, dope man. And when I show up, my my girlfriend uh and I also got back together. When we showed up, God was speaking to me. There was a guy speaking, he had a message, he was talking. I can't tell you if his message connected with anything that God was speaking to me, but God met me at that pew, and I remember looking at at my girlfriend sharing with her the following I wish this guy would quit speaking. I want to go give my life to Jesus Christ. And this was what had happened right before that moment. I heard God say, not that I'm a loser, not that I'm going to hell. He said the thing I had been looking for the entire time. And it's what every dude who's watching this podcast, who's listening to it, and or it's been shared with, it's what every single human being wants to hear. And it was these words, Joshua, I love you. That was the thing that I needed. It wasn't doctrine, it wasn't theology, it wasn't preaching. It was I needed to be loved, and I went forward, gave the pastor my pot, God my heart, and that was the beginning that everything changed.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

So good. That's so good. What about you, William? Well, what was that again, sir?

SPEAKER_02 38:13

So let me reframe it. So, what was the lowest room you've ever sat in?

SPEAKER_01 38:19

It's a big question. That's that's that's uh that's a very big question. I've been in some pretty low rooms. Okay, I have to frame this on the front end first. Yeah, after around when I was 23, 24, I met a young lady, and we end up having a child together, which is my daughter Carmen. Greatest gift, man. And uh I stuffed everything that I had going on deep, deep somewhere down inside of me, Gary. You know, now I'm I'm I'm gonna be the best dad. I'm I'm gonna walk this out, I'm gonna do this the right way. And I I didn't deal with a lot of the things that had been haunting me up to this point in my life. I just stuffed them and I'm I'm gonna show the world I'm gonna be the best dad ever, you know, not ever having an example of how to be a dad. So I setting myself up to be the same exact cycle of my dad, generational cursing. So uh father was very grateful to me. I went through many things and and had a good life up to a point where I had a back injury, and um I got prescribed opiates, and all that addiction and pain and all that I had stuffed for so many years busted out wide on me. And uh it sent me down a bad path. I uh started, I lost my business, then I lost my family. I'm in my 40s. I mean, I I've worked for this forever, and it sent me to a point where it made me very broken, very lost, and I made a multitude of decisions, bad decisions, that led me to end up in prison, not jail, DDLC facility. And uh within there, that is where I truly found Father, and I found Jesus. He had to get me alone and isolate me from all the noise, all the pain. And I shared this with Joshua many occasions. That was uh COVID, that was a COVID year. So I was alone in my cell. Now we're quarantined 23 hours a day. Well, I'm locked in there with only four Bibles, and and and within that quarantine is when I truly got to know the word of God and the Holy Ghost got him. I explained this to Joshua. I had a moment one day where something just broke inside me, and I just started praying and weeping. I was speaking in in a language I've never spoken before, and and and and and it was an amazing moment. And uh that's where it really started, was was was was inside that cell. And uh through that entire tenure, I look back as Jesus boot camp. I I I was not arrested, I was rescued. I spent the entire rest of that time incarcerated, learning the word of God, learning what it is to be a man of God. When I was in there, I met some of the most freest men I've ever met inside of a concrete wall. They had totally given their life, they were disciples of Christ white right where they were. They were standing on the rock right there. And and and and through that, that's that's where it happened. That's where the Holy Ghost got hold of me. That's where uh He put me around the right man at the right time, and that's where Joshua was talking about that uh moment of Jonah. And I used to tell people when this concrete well spits me out, I'm going to Nivea, and I'm gonna preach the word. I I promise you, Lord. And it put me on my mission where I'm at today, Gary.

SPEAKER_05 42:04

Let me do let me do one follow-up. Yeah, there was a a night that you were inside of a cell, yeah, and there were some things that came through Nashville. Do you remember what came through? Knocked some power out.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Oh, that was yeah, that that was the night that I I got in um March 2nd, 2020. The tornadoes come through Nashville. Many people can remember that. That that that night I suffered in an overdose, and luckily someone walked by our car and called the authorities. I had been on the run for some time, and it was an angel. I know who it was now. You're not gonna tell me no different. And and through that moment, that is where um I I knew it was over. I when I came to, I was in handcuffs and I was in the back of an ambulance, and the the gentleman that that revived me shared the gospel with me and and and and told me to take advantage of the opportunity that the Lord had given me because he's seen many men not come back from what I had just suffered and don't waste it. Wow, that really complicated and just dwelled on me. And uh, like Joshua said, we went, there was no power. The the power's knocked out, big trees are laying down all around downtown Nashville, and I remember laying there with no hot water, no power. It was a bad scene, man. And I crawled out of that bunk and hit my knees and asked God, and Jesus, if if if you're real, Lord, I need you and I need you help me through this and get me back up on my feet. And the way these men tell me you can, I will serve you and I will walk with you, and I will be on mission for you for the rest of my life and true to it.

SPEAKER_05 43:55

Yeah, and for any listeners that are trying to just piece that together, one of the Led to the other event that pretty much was all one big event that led him to no power inside of prison and crying out to God. And God met him right where he's at. And then that would lead him to some pretty cool stories, but we'll see where Gary wants to go from here.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

No, I I I think it's great. I definitely want to hear some of those stories. It's definitely the hole that only God can fill. And so I love, and you guys are familiar with this verse, Psalm, Psalm 68, right? God is the father to the fatherless. Um, but I love about that. He's not a he's not a replacement. He he's the real father, he's the only one we're looking for the entire time. And so there's a hole in every fatherless man. And so that man will spend years trying to fill it, years of making decisions that will lead to dead ends, but only Jesus is the one that brings us back. And so you guys have shared kind of what you were running from, what stopped, what broke, um, you know, kind of who put Jesus in front of you, that type of things. But I want to press into your testimonies a little bit more. So, what changed first for you? Was it your behavior or your identity?

SPEAKER_01 45:10

For me, it was definitely my behavior. I I had come to understand that I was broken and I was out of control. And um, yeah, it was my behavior most definitely.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

I didn't even figure out son of the most high until this year. Okay, so when you talk about Gary, there's I I'm telling you, I'm not that bright. And so it was it was me reading the Bible that began me understanding wait a minute, acknowledge the Lord in all your ways, and he'll make your path straight. Yeah, so not very smart me believed that that was the thing that you're supposed to do, and it worked. I was like, if the Bible says it, I'm just gonna do it. And I started just, you know, in all my ways, I acknowledged him. So at 20 years old, I'm telling my friends, I'm following Jesus. Now, I was slipping sometimes, but at the same time, it didn't change the fact that if we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So every time I messed up, I fessed up, I didn't stop. And so I just believed the Bible for what it said, and that would put me on trajectory of breaking generational cycles.

unknown 46:29

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Yeah, it's that's really good. I I like to ask that question because it's different for every person. Um, sometimes their identity changes immediately, sometimes it's their behavior. So it's it's always interesting. So when I think about I think about me in my life, it's it's always like, you know, the behavior changed first. And what's interesting to me is the older I get, the more I realize that Satan doesn't attack my behavior. He attacks my identity constantly, every single day. Like, you know, telling me, hey, you're a screw up, or hey, you know, you you're you're not achieving these things, or hey, you're not hitting these benchmarks. And so it's this constant battle. And uh what my friend Reese talks about, he talks about these agreements that we have to break in our life that that we actually believe. Satan will put these agreements, yeah, we are a screw up, and yeah, we are a mess up. But Jesus is like, no, you're not. And and so what what would you guys say to the men who are listening right now? You know, what what would you tell them? What what are some next steps they would have to take who who might be sitting in a room that you used to sit in?

SPEAKER_05 47:34

Uh yeah, I'll start. Um, first is you listen and obey.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

Period. And anywhere that you're not willing to obey, you're not making traction, bro. So the first thing I would say is whatever the father is talking to you about, when we say father, we're saying, let's start there. Get right with God. He loves you, you hear it, you just confess Jesus as Lord and trust that he loves you and died for your sins. Now it's time to listen because your friends, your family, people who really care about you have been telling you what you need to do, and you just need to do it. And so I think the prevention of getting victory and traction in our lives is directly connected to the level of obedience on the thing that he's dealing with you right now on. Yeah. So he might not be dealing with every single thing that needs to be transformed in your life, but there might be one little thing right now that he says, I want you to do X. For me, I gave up all my music. I traded uh all my CDs back then. You had like books and books of CDs with all the different music in it, Green Day and Live and all the thug music. And it's like, that's the first thing I did is get rid of that. Um, and I exchanged it for some BBN Bible Broadcasting Network to transform. So Jay Vernon McGee, anybody that was on um Hank Hanagrab, anybody that was on, I'm listening, unshackled, I'm listening. So I am feeding myself every single day God's people, God's word, because I had to reinforce and relearn the operating system that I had been downloaded from the world, the flesh, and the devil.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Yeah. William speaking to that, that's good. I just said that's so good. I'm just sitting here just listening. That's that's that's that's that's just so true. And I repeat very much every day, repeat wake up and repeat. And um mine would be Gary, the men that I'm I'm blessed to be around every day. I remind them of the book of James and the power of the words that they speak over themselves and their family and their lives, and and and to be aware, just just be aware of who you are. You are a son of the most high, you are a king, you you are more than a conqueror. And and it's a matter of getting that obedience and and coming to understand just who you are. From what I get, there's so many men that that you talk about identity. There's more men out there just surviving and trying to get through the day than worrying about anything of legacy or identity, and that's another ploy of the devil. He's he's he's he's he's selling it wholesale out here right now, and and uh just always have an awareness of uh of your your thoughts, your emotions, and your words, and that that that's a big one that I share with with the men I'm around every day at work. That's that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

So as men are listening to this, and and maybe they're like, you know what, I'm I'm not I'm not into the Jesus thing, or that's good for you guys, glad you found your faith. I mean, these are things I hear all the time, but what would be like a a concrete invitation to to men who are just, you know what, they're just at the end of their rope, they're sick of playing an identity that they know every day they wake up and it's not real. Like, what would you say to them on on the grounds of like who God is, what Jesus has done? How would you invite them into that space to make Jesus their king?

SPEAKER_05 51:16

So I said I would start with fruit. If you want to examine if something is is real or not, check out the fruit that that root produces. And so if you want to look at people that you need to model your life after, check out the fruit that their lives are producing. And and it's not what you hear them say on Sunday morning or Sunday night or Wednesday night, what do the people closest to them have to say about them? Yeah, um, their family, their, their wife, their kids. If you want to know what you should be sucking on, where you should land, you know, your your life, where you should plant your root is, find the people that have the fruit that you want to have some of that. And then you start doing what they're doing. And so proximity of presence is the first piece of advice that I would have for any dude. You become like those you spend the most time with. Whether it's what you hear, what you see, or the people inside of your room, they will form you over time, and that's why modern day discipleship doesn't work. It's not a Sunday morning, it is a Monday through Friday relationship of who is forming you during those times of the day, what social media, what music, all of that. And so anyway, I'm preaching too long, but I'm telling you, if you're a dude, you're looking for help, you're looking for how do I become um whole or how do I feel loved, you start by making sure that you're sucking on the right things that are going to produce your presence and proximity is producing principles and practices that bring you into the person that you desire to be.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

That's good. William, any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Other than that was awesome, brother. There's nothing I can add to that right there. That that was awesome.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

Oh, thank you. It is presence. Surround yourself, surround yourself with the people you want to be like, yeah. And and their lives are the fruit of the route that they chew on. And so for me, it starts with an intimate, dependent, vital relationship with Yahweh.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Yeah, yeah. And that's so good, Josh. I mean, there's definitely, you know, the law of the inner circle, like who you hang out with is what you become. And so if you want to be somewhere, you know, start hanging out with the people who are already there. Even if even if you're the guy that cleans up the plates after their dinner, just hang out with them and listen. If your ear can even be at the table, um, that's a gift. Uh, you don't have to be the the one known in the room. If you're just in the room, the fly on the wall, um, you can your life will start changing there. That's so good. So let's talk about like let's talk about salvation. So, salvation, you know, it's not the finish line, it's just the starting block, right? It's like now, now you know you're you're a beloved son. Um, you have a heavenly father who's crazy about you, the cycle breaks. What does salvation do to the man who didn't have it before? Like what changes from perspective to behavior? What does Jesus do for you?

SPEAKER_05 54:32

Do you have an incredible story of overcoming the home that you were raised in? Or maybe the father wounds that were placed inside your life? If so, I want to share it with other dudes without dads. Simply go to dueswithout dadspodcast.com and apply to be a guest on the show. The reason it's important to share your story is because when you share what God has done for you, it helps other men believe that God can do it for them, and he can. To share your story, head over to Dues Without Dads Podcast today. Well, do you have anything?

SPEAKER_01 55:13

I'm gonna complete on this one.

SPEAKER_05 55:15

When I think of salvation, I think of legacy and purpose.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:20

And so a lot of people think salvation, I'm not going to hell. That doesn't motivate. Like for me, you know, like if it's a confession of sin that gets me out of hell, that's not true salvation. True salvation is a motivation to live beyond yourself and for every single human being that is watching you.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

Right.

SPEAKER_05 55:42

And so when I think of salvation, I think of a love that transforms to a legacy mindset. When this whole thing is done, everything said and done over, did what I do reflect in who and what I believed in. Salvation should be a an explosion of God's presence everywhere that you are. And so I believe in Matthew 28, 19, it's not just a physical baptism underwater. I think when people meet you, they should be meeting the Heavenly Father because you have been spending time with the Father. And so that is my language for salvation. It is a presence of God's presence wherever you are. Salvation is here.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

It's good. That is good.

SPEAKER_05 56:34

That's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

I love it. William, what about you? You want to add to that at all? Just uh, I was just, I'm gonna say this again. I was just speaking with the men the other day, and I just simply remind them you may be the only Jesus someone comes across in that moment that that needs to know Jesus. So please always remember your mission, our mission, and uh the salvation that was given to you through his blood on that cross and to pick up that mantle and just always remember to be on point and represent the kingdom in a proper manner. That's what I yes, sir.

SPEAKER_05 57:13

Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt, but as as as you're sharing, my brain is chewing, Gary. Yeah, I want to give every dude that is listening to this a measuring stick, you know, just like you're measuring whether or not you got oil in the tank or not. I want you to measure where you are in your salvation. Salvation means you've moved from me living to other living. If you're looking at your spouse saying, hey, that person don't make me happy anymore, and now you have moved on to sucking onto some other identity outside of a faithful husband, a faithful father, your salvation isn't deep enough. If you say, hey, if you ever do anything, this is where I was. I mean, when I got saved and got married, I told, you know, my my wife, I was like, if you ever cheat on me, if you ever cheat on me, we're over. That was a reflection that salvation had not changed me to being a servant leader leader enough to understand if God loves me while I'm yet a sinner, my call is to love that person. I'm not telling other people what to do, but I'm saying that the level of how you've been loved is the level that you love another human being. If you want to measure your salvation experience, it is measure it against how much you love the people closest to you and whether or not you model a servant leadership. I'm here for you, not me. It ain't what I get out, it's what I'm gonna put in and I'm gonna make your life better. And when I look at, when I look at the things that's wrong and why we have the podcast, it's because dudes give up too early and they don't stick in the fight and they don't say, hey, the reason I'm acting this way is because I don't have a vital, intimate relationship with the Heavenly Father, and it's because of some father wounds, you're expecting somebody else to fulfill you that only our father in heaven can fulfill us. So that's the thing that kind of gets me riled up. I want to see dudes staying faithful as a man, as a husband, and a father, and it comes in being a relationship with our heavenly father intimately.

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Amen. It's good, it's good.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

Yeah, let me let me press into this even more. Like, so and I'll just speak on behalf of you, Josh, is like I've just watching you from afar, you're very involved with your family, you love your children. Um, and and I I see that I see it modeled. And you know, I I would call you a very present father from at least what what I've what I've seen. And so I I want to give you, and and William, you can add to this too. I I want to give you guys like five words because I'm thinking about the dad who just doesn't know how to be present. Um, and so I'll I'll say these words and I'll give like a really short definition and and you guys just kind of add to it and speak to it. The the first the first word would be presence, like showing up. A young boy or a child is not asking for perfect, he's asking for there. And so speak into that presence.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:18

While you were chatting, I had images of different dudes, a model that I that I watch from afar, and I realized that they distract themselves from the very thing that would give them fulfillment to begin with, whether it's video games, whether it's Netflix binging, whether it's looking to get approval of performance, whether it be their church, their business, um, what they deem to be success looking like, and they're not taking advantage of turning things off or at least being available for their kids and doing the things that their their kids want to do. Why not be the dad you wish you had to your kids? And you didn't wish you had a distracted dad, you didn't wish you had an abandoned dad. Start being the dude you wish you had for your kids. And so some things I do is I go have fun with them. The zoo is not that expensive if you live near a zoo. A park is not that expensive if you have a park. A ball is not too expensive if you have a ball. A rope over a tree that swings and you take it wherever you go is not that expensive. Our kids just want our time. We can noogie, we can talk junk to each other, we can fight, wrestle, jujitsu, cold plunge, whatever age and stage. And the lie is this they don't want me, they want you. Even if they're if you're old and they're old, they want you. And if you've done wrong, make it right and try to just get it right because they desire an intimate relationship with their father, period.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

It's good. Well, you want to add to that presence? You're a hard man to follow up.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

I mean you you like knock it out the park every time.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:57

You you you've got wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Because I know what the people that played with Tom Brady felt like now, like you know, they're on that that guy. Um, presence with me is just just be genuine. Yeah, you know what I mean. Be be just be genuine, and and my goal every day is just to make sure that everyone that I encounter goes away knowing they were heard, seen, and loved, and that they got my full presence in that matter of no matter what it is, whether it's with my children, my co-workers, my brother, my family. Just just that's all I really have to add to that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

That's good. That's good. All right. So my second word of the five for a present father, the next word is identity. So speaking the name over them, like telling telling your child who they are before the world tells them a lie, their identity. So, how do you bring identity into your kids' lives?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:54

Yeah, so for me, it's as you wake up, as you walk through the house, as you leave the house, get in the car, go wherever you go. It is not a one-time conversation, it is a constant presence of your mind. I love you, and you've got some incredible gifts and personalities, and I love that about you. It's picking out the things that they are and just speaking into it. Um, my youngest son, he'll spank me on the booty, he'll do some dances, he'll throw rocks, um, he'll want to fight, punch you in the nose. And it's like, dude, I love you. I love you. I'm exhausted 99% of the time. But it was I love who God has created you to be. When you understand personality profiles, biblical discs, Enneagram, you name the different things, you're like, that dude is created in unique giftings, and I'm just going to speak to his giftings and reframe it to being like God's made you with a purpose and with a design, and you are going to glorify him in it. And whatever that is, if they're gentle and pleasing and you enjoy, speak to that. If they're frustrating, they yell at your kids and you're wanting to yell back. You love that. You just say, Hey, I love you. You're so and just constantly work on love. The last thing you want to do is work on separation.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

That's good, William.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:14

Well, identity is a new thing in my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

I've never had it. So I'm in the verge of uh in a season, and many men that would be watching this podcast of now having an identity. That's one of our Lord, savior, and king Jesus Christ. I'm having to walk it out every day. And I have many people that still are waiting for the trip and the fall and the stumble, and and and I gave them that. So I I it's always just I'll go back to being genuine, obedient, and aware of whom's identity you are carrying now. It is no longer I, it is it is my king, my lord, and my savior's identity for those that are transitioning into having that Christ identity.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

That's good. So we have we have presence, we have identity. Number three would be structure. And what I mean by structure is like as a as a father figure, you set the boundary, and I always like to explain discipline is love with a spine. So kind of kind of speak speaking to that a little bit, structure.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:21

Wow. So I'm more of a rhythm guy than a structure guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

You know me, Josh, I'm all about structure.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:29

Yeah, we've shared a bunk together. So you are military and has a place, and you would be better if I asked you this question. For me, I'm more about rhythm. Yeah, if you go to bed on time, you can wake up on time. And so for me, it would be more rhythms of grace, it'd be more principles. I've I've learned this about me recently. I don't ever measure my coffee in the morning, I just do this. When I bake chocolate chip cookies, here's the flower. Here's some butter. It's like and I enjoy baking when I make steak. When I whatever I do, I don't follow a recipe. I kind of follow rhythms that get the thing made. So you might be more like me, and you just need guiding principles to go to bed at a certain time, turn the TV off, don't stay up late, wake up early, spend time in the Word, spend time working out, spend time with your kids and your wife, sharing with them what you're reading, what you're thinking about, what you're chewing on. And then when you work, make sure your work reflects who you worship. And that would be the principles that I would say. And then once you come home, you're not done, your work begins. Your wife's been waiting on you. If you're you got a wife in the home, your job begins when you get home.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:47

You might need to pray and fast before you walk in the doors and ask God's presence for help. And I'm telling you, based on principles and practices that I've walked, if you need structure, we're gonna have Gary speaking.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

William, what about you? Structure. You and I share a lot of qualities. I'm a very structured person. I'm up the same time, I'm doing this, I'm turning the key at the office same time every morning. And uh what's the most important thing I do, I share with people, your day is going to end in the way it begins. I I make sure to get up and and and and see the day from the beginning to the end, spend time in the word of God, enjoy the morning, have time to concentrate on the day itself because every day is is is is really all we have. And I remind some of the men that work with me the significance of today. I think so many people just wake up and blow through their day and not come in to understand the miracle of what today is.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

All right, so we got presence, identity, structure. The fourth one, we're almost done here with the five, is is model. So if you have a son, you know, he learns to be the man by watching one. Um, we talked about that, and so be the one. Or if your child, they're gonna learn by what they see, they're gonna model by what whatever's in front of them. So so talk on that. You did touch on it a little bit in your testimony, but just talk on how you're living it out now.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:14

So, what I've learned is I'm actually a pretty, and so anybody that's listening or watching, we're a long ways in, and I'll try to make some short, but I'm telling you, I'm not a great model of what I actually want to be, because I'm may I'm I have made it up along the way. And so it's basically me figuring out what should I be modeling? And then I've started noticing things that my wife is really good at that's been chatting with me for a long time, and I haven't been listening. And I'm like, oh okay, now I understand. Um, part of being a man is, and when I say this, these are general questions and conversations, is fixing broken things in the house. I'll distract myself versus modeling the thing that my kids need to see modeling. How many things do we have right now in my home? And I've got the the water hose spigot has come off the wall and it's laying outside. It's been there for two weeks. And I know that the model is to model to my children what a man looks like, and it really is. Go fix that thing, go clean this up, be a good steward of what you have. What I currently model is me figuring out what I have figured out this the thus this far. And I also recognize I have a lot of modeling to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

So we have presence, we have identity structure, and model. And the last one is probably my favorite is blessing. Um, telling your kids how proud you are over them out loud and speaking, speaking it so they can hear it and understand it. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

You want to share this right there?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:55

The blessing. You you know, I I I just don't take nothing for granted no more, Gary. I used to take so much for granted, and I just see so many blessings and so many things these days of where of uh just in the smallest details of life, that just having the ability to be here on this podcast with you and my brother is a blessing, and I think there's so many significant blessings throughout today that we all need to pay more attention to. But I'm I'm very blessed. Uh I that's just really the only way I can answer that, sir.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:38

Yeah, I had Robert Lewis on the podcast uh a few months ago, and when he first answered this question, it reframed how I now think about that question. And so until I had interviewed Robert Lewis, come on, I had no idea what the word blessing could look like. And so he helped me tremendously to understand this. And he basically said that Matthew 3:17, our heavenly father models what earthly fathers need to give to their kids, yeah, and it's called the blessing. And I'm like, okay, what is that? And that's what led me um to William, you know, and we haven't shared a whole lot of that. I'll try to share it really quickly so we can wrap up. But because when I met Robert Lewis, he said, every son needs to hear from their father the blessing. I was like, what is the blessing? He said, if your son, if your father has never spoken this over you, every dude is a little bit jacked up in this situation. He didn't use the word jacked up, that's my word, okay? He felt like something's off a little bit, you know, it would be his his great grandfather language, and I was like, Well, I need to know what the blessing is. He said, Now, Joshua, every man that hasn't received the blessing, and I'm like, All right, please tell me what the blessing is. He said, It's you are my beloved son, in whom I love and am well pleased. So if we go to Matthew 3, 17, there's a few other spots in the scripture. That is what ultimately I said, Hey, what if I never what if your dad's dead? What should I do? He said, Do you know where he's buried? I was like, No, but Gemini knows. And so I ended up asking Gemini the next week, which is Google's LLM for AI. I said, Hey, can you help me find my dad's grave? Because I had never, this was this year in March. I'd never cared to ever see him because I hated him. And it pulled up a picture of my dad's grave when I ended up asking a few questions. I said, Hey, can you show me where that cemetery is located? It didn't name it, it just pointed it was on the edge of Kentucky and Tennessee border. And I had been processing what am I going to do for my birthday? And I had to that week, March 22nd, 2026, I decided that I was going to go have a conversation with my dad because that's what Robert suggested. So I went there, got on my knees, put my hands in the dirt, and I started to talk to my dead dad. And I told him, I started crying, I started in anger and uh cry at the same time that I sure could have used somebody to protect me and my mom. That was kind of like the starting point. And then I, you know, I start thinking and sharing how much it sucked not having a dad to be in my life. And then I moved to forgiving and blessing him, and then asking God to remove generational curses.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:54

I then moved to the back side of the grave. After I was done, I felt the spirit of abandonment leave me. And it says father of William and Tanya. And I was like, Holy cow, my grand, my grandson's name's gonna be William, and I got a brother named William. And that is what led me to that night to go on Facebook and try to find out who William is.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:18

Within the week, I ended up meeting William at Men of Valor Breakfast. And it's like God immediately started restoring that which was broken as soon as I did the thing that I needed to do, and that was to forgive and release the debt and then bless my dad, the blessing that he didn't give me.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:42

Wow. I want you to dig more into that story because this is why we're kind of doing this. This is a big restoration story. So you went to the grave, you found William. Now William's on this podcast. We're we're we're talking. Like, where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:58

Well, for me, it would be this is not just my story. Every dude's story that's without a dad. Yeah, the dudes without dads podcast exists for abandoned, distracted, and destructive fathers. Um, for those of sons that have experienced those wounds. I'm telling, we're sharing this story because I believe God Almighty, Yahoo, how much to you, you the father who created the heavens and the earth, he loves us and he desires to restore us into a right relationship with him and with each other so we can start setting up generational blessings instead of generational curses. And so that's the whole purpose of me even asking Gary to come in and interview us, is because I believe God wants to reconcile relationships with you and him, and then you and your father. And you got to go get your blessing and then start passing on the blessing so you can have generational legacies versus generational curses and cycles that we constantly see inside of our social media threads.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

That's good. So our time is getting really close here. Um, is there anything else you guys want to share from both your stories to our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

There is just one thing I would like to share. Yeah. For many years I was angry at Father. I was mad at God for not having a brother, not having a son, and through me giving my life over to him and giving him total domain over my very identity and being, he has put me in a position to where I have many brothers and I have many sons throughout the kingdom of Christ now. And and and and I just wanted to share that. You know, you asked earlier what would make someone want to reach out, and and I just wanted to add that was just on my mind and my heart. I wanted to share that. And then why not? You've tried everything else, give him a chance.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:14

Yeah, I'll point out that the fruit in William's life, sometimes when you're in it, you don't see the outside. I see the outside, he experiences the inside. So he may be harder on himself or you know, beat himself up sometimes. But the dude is a complete minister in the marketplace. If you wanted to see what it looked like to be redeemed and live redemption living, he ended up getting connected with a ministry called Men of Valor. It's an incarceration rehabilitation program right here in Nashville, and they give inmates opportunities to find job placement through discipleship. This dude would end up finding a job inside of Men of Valor that he would work himself up in. And once he got released, he would end up managing one of their branches. And now they hire other men of valor incarcerated, those who have formerly incarcerated, with many of them. I want to say the stats are at least 80 to 90 percent of dudes in prison right now have father wounds. He now has the uh pleasure and the pain of having to deal with dudes without dads, because dudes without dads can be three-letter words sometimes. Uh but but so he's he is the real deal. So if you want to see what it what it looks like to say, what does it look like to get restored to God, and then start allowing my work to be a witness of who I worship, and then he's rec he is reconciling, helping others reconcile to their heavenly father through forgiving the earthly father because of his story. And so, every listener, your story can be the same as our story. Wherever we are, we are ambassadors inviting other people to be reconciled to God and to one another.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

That's so good, that's so good, Joshua William. Thank you for allowing me um to interview you guys and thank you for your courage. Thank you for stepping out and going live here and just sharing your story. And Dudes Without Dads is the podcast you should be listening to. It's awesome. And Josh, thanks for uh being obedient to God and allowing him and you to lead this great effort in North America.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:29

Yeah, thank you so much. If you're listening, if you catch this at any time, please do me a favor, subscribe to the podcast, do yourself a favor, share it with other people as well. Um, it's not because, hey, we're trying to uh make money, we're trying to make a difference. And so everything I'm doing is out of pocket to try to make a difference inside the world around us. And so subscribe, comment, share. It helps us grow our algorithm. Gary, you are the man, and thank you for taking time for your very busy schedule to bless us and others today. And until next time, thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:06

Give him a chance. Forgiveness is more for you than them. I had inner peace for the first time in my life. It's just me, just Jesus.